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entropy13 Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#46251: Apr 30th 2016 at 7:16:02 PM

Yep there was a German here in this thread in the past. His last post even was about being the gunner in a Leopard 2...tongue

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#46252: Apr 30th 2016 at 8:32:05 PM

See I did remember one.

The more Russia seems different the more they turn out the same. Oh dear. I need a version of I think I'm turning Japanese only for Russia.

Who watches the watchmen?
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#46253: Apr 30th 2016 at 9:02:43 PM

[up] Well, Russia and Japan are right next to each other.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#46254: Apr 30th 2016 at 11:33:14 PM

@Knit Tie:

"Secret military budget" probably means the black budget every military has for different purposes, usually R&D. As an example the US black budget, which is used to fund things like Groom Lake and other classified projects. Whether it has been well spent is another matter entirely.

Clever segway to spooky video go!

You can find some of the projects if you google enough.

edited 30th Apr '16 11:53:29 PM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#46255: May 1st 2016 at 12:55:33 AM

Do UN Peacekeeping troops still do M1 helmets?

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#46256: May 1st 2016 at 1:03:35 AM

[up]

They wear the equipment of their home countries, with the appropriate UN helmet cover. In particularly dangerous places though, they often don't wear any blue, except during ceremonies. A patch being the only identifiable mark.

edited 1st May '16 1:06:09 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#46257: May 1st 2016 at 1:10:44 AM

[up] Then how come these guys here have their helmets blue?

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#46258: May 1st 2016 at 3:14:53 AM

Because they couldn't afford better ones, I'd venture. The Peacekeepers belong to their respective countries. They just work under a UN mandate. Finland uses painted helmets only in Lebanon (which is generally a pretty calm place), but more commonly blue caps or a blue helmet cover.

In Kosovo, just normal combat gear since snipers were a constant threat in the 90's.

The UN doesn't equip shit.

edited 1st May '16 3:26:27 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#46259: May 1st 2016 at 5:20:48 AM

That's the Nepalese army so that might be an accurate assessment.

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#46260: May 1st 2016 at 9:14:31 AM

The Brazilian Army hated using blue helmets in Haiti for the simple reason that it made them easier targets for the crime lords and Haitian militias. But some fuck up said they were required to use those helmets because they didn't have anything else, so Helmets Are Hardly Heroic came into full play and a good share of the soldiers sent didn't use them unless they were guarding UN buildings.

Inter arma enim silent leges
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#46261: May 1st 2016 at 10:18:31 AM

I mostly associate UN soldiers with the ones from 90s era, especially with movies like Hotel Rwanda.

New Survey coming this weekend!
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#46262: May 1st 2016 at 10:50:48 AM

Even the 90's peacekeepers swing wildly depending which country they come from and the area of operations. Some were really screwed by the rules of engagement, some found very creative methods for getting around them and some outright ignored them.

edited 1st May '16 10:52:36 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#46263: May 1st 2016 at 3:43:47 PM

Weren't the US military forces in Operation Gothic Serpent (Black Hawk Down) theoretically conducting a peacekeeping operation? I'm pretty much sure that they were operating outside of UN jurisdiction however, as the blue helmets aren't commonly associated with commando raids targeting HV Is. tongue

KnitTie Since: Mar, 2015
#46264: May 1st 2016 at 8:02:31 PM

So ladies and gentlemen, I realise that this is neither the worldbuilding thread nor the writing help thread, but we have some actual military people here, so I'd still like to ask you all this:

In a sci-fi setting where there's no FTL communication other than sending a ship with a message and FTL travel itself has enough realism injected into it to make it long, difficult, costly and with demand for it always outstripping supply by a significant margin, what would a protracted land war over a readily-terraformed planet between two interstellar powers look like if we assume that advanced technology is very scarce and the galaxy is very sparcely populated?

A friend of mine is very nobly trying to inject some non-suck into the modern Russian literature, you see, and I'm trying to help her with creating a realistic plot.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#46265: May 1st 2016 at 8:06:14 PM

[up] Think Stalingrad on a planetary level.

Jesus Christ. Just imagining the level of fuckery that would cause with no FTL communications is some serious Nightmare Fuel

New Survey coming this weekend!
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#46266: May 1st 2016 at 8:08:26 PM

[up][up] Are you saying that the novelization of Metro 2033 is considered suck? tongue

Honestly though, I'm not really the best source of knowledge regarding science fiction asides from Star Wars. However, from what you've explained, I could imagine such a theoretical interstellar conflict being like the French & Indian War and its relationship to the vaster Seven Years' War.

[up] Grim dark Russian post-apocalyptic novel ensues! War And Peace Recycled In Space! evil grin

edited 1st May '16 8:09:36 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#46267: May 1st 2016 at 8:08:41 PM

I built an entire RPG world around the idea, never got the RPG going though. Basically you're looking at colonial era communication, you'd have super fast messenger ships running about carrying 'letters' between space sectors, I may try and find the old game details I wrote for the idea, I know that players were going to be the crew of a messenger ship.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#46268: May 1st 2016 at 8:26:23 PM

Something to consider is that while communication might be slow, the volume of it will probably still be very high. Imagine an intern carrying a 1TB hard drive from one office to another office in a distant part of the building.

So these couriers won't be running between star systems only carrying a few messages, they will likely carry vast amounts of data, everything from communications logs and sensor data from units all across the planet to love letters and coverage of the World Series and the dankest of memes from Paris.

It would be interesting to see what kind of data management system you'd use, assuming that you'd send multiple copies of the same data on multiple couriers until you verified it had been received. Probably every file would have a unique identifier, with receipts being sent back on the next courier. Some stuff would be minor enough that it wouldn't warrant resending, or might have an expiration date after which there'd be no point to trying to get it to the destination.

Also, assuming armies can be sent at the same speed as data, I'm picturing a large expeditionary force being sent to multiple hot spots to goomba stomp opposition with overwhelming force, packing up, and heading to the next hot spot in another star system (at least until the other side sends their reinforcements with similar speed and efficiency). The odds of two such expeditionary forces turning up at the same place and time would be rare, but the results could be spectacular.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#46269: May 1st 2016 at 8:42:09 PM

They wouldn't necessarily even have to physically deliver the hard drive to its recipient. The courier ship would be equipped with a powerful transceiver with mega-bandwidth and fucktons of empty memory, and would only have to come within radio range to upload and download data.

So the crew might complain that while they do get to travel a lot, they never get to see anything. No time for shore leave, just upload the datastream and head off to the next star system...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#46270: May 1st 2016 at 8:49:08 PM

[up]The Forever War: war in space w/o FTL that's only slightly faster than the speed of light. Society would change radically between battles assuming the "Army" travels in cryo.

Mars is so far away in fact that it takes radio signals quite a long time to get from the spacecraft back to Earth. During Curiosity EDL, this delay will be 13 minutes, 48 seconds, about mid-way between the minimum delay of around 4 minutes and the maximum of around 24 minutes. —- ESA: "TIme Delay Between Mars and Earth"

So an Army of heterosexual men could find their reinforcements to be "Pan-sexual genderfluid Furries" due to changes in society due to distance. Ship captains and ground commanders would be given wide latitude because calling home is no easy feat. So if Capt. James T. Smirk has an "incident", meh, by the time word gets back it could be years latter.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#46271: May 1st 2016 at 9:13:08 PM

Depending on lengths of time we could be talking long trip time frames during the age of sail. The route from Europe to the US was around 2 months depending on travel conditions. It took a like while for mail correspondence to circulate between the US and posts in Europe.

Wouldn't hurt to maybe borrow some ready examples from history. It took a good while for orders, fresh troops, new supplies, and other things to circulate.

Who watches the watchmen?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#46272: May 1st 2016 at 9:26:44 PM

So Traveler style of communications, where you have picket crafts that carry vast amounts of information on their computers and once they reach the destination system they upload the data to buoys and download the data from the system they just arrived to deliver to another one.

I think the Romans had a similar courier system like this for their roads with each messenger being assigned for a city or village through.

Inter arma enim silent leges
KnitTie Since: Mar, 2015
#46273: May 1st 2016 at 9:39:18 PM

Tactical - With the way politics work in this setting, very few conflicts ever reach the level of WW 2 in terms of both scale and commitment. This is not a deathmatch between two ideologically mutually exclusive garrison states trying to exterminate each other in a state of total war, this is a border conflict between two colonial powers that are ruled by people (usually) smart enough that at some point, just giving the enemy their goddamn land in exchange for some concessions will be a better option than siphoning more and more troops into a meatgrinder, troops that can be allocated to do infinitely more useful things, such as telling those assholes on Planet X to finally pay their goddamn taxes, for example.

What I'm personally more interested here is how much of a mess will logistics be in this war, and how often will the sides do completely idiotic things simply because they lack the necessary intel?

Edit - Or even how much of a pain would it be to get all the factions that are technically on your side to actually be on your side? With the Age of Information being steadily in the past and the galaxy still recovering from the collapse of the first interstellar states - nothing magically cataclysmic, just plain ol' space equivalent of an overburdened empire tearing itself apart with enough bloodshed and WM Ds to throw a lot of places into Syria-like anarchy - I think that most of the inhabited planets would be separate societies in a sort of a quasi-feudal relationship with the metropoly, which means that if they feel that they can tell it to screw off with no serious consequences, they usually do.

Heh. Imagine a situation where two armies have been fighting a long campaign side by side on some forgotten mudball and then a messenger ship arrives telling one army that A)they and their allies should've been mortal enemies for the last five years and B)the people they just finished attacking are now a part of their empire who they are supposed to shoot "eternal friendship"-themed propaganda clips with to help deescalate a growing ethnic conflict in a nearby system. That'd be fun to explore.

edited 1st May '16 10:05:06 PM by KnitTie

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#46274: May 1st 2016 at 10:03:16 PM

Oh yeah you'll see the return of weird shit, like an army taking over an entire city after the war has ended because they didn't get the peace letter yet.

I admit all this talk of this stuff makes me tempted to dig up what is created and try and run the game I never started, I'm pretty sure that it was a human only setting without aliens having been encountered, yet...

edited 1st May '16 10:04:32 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#46275: May 1st 2016 at 10:55:42 PM

I've mostly written stories about foreign mercenaries who after numerous hijinks end up in Japan to fight the northern tribes. Generally reviled by Heian-kyo, but useful in the frontlines.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

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