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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#276: May 24th 2010 at 5:53:23 PM

Lol Hello Deboss. -pokes obviously dead brain-

I should note the people injured pretty much injured themselves attacking the dozer or running away. Meh he didn't directly injure anyone.

Who watches the watchmen?
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#277: May 25th 2010 at 1:48:15 AM

Not for the lack of trying, from what I understand. The guy had a freaking .50 Barret M82 installed in the cabin. A veritable Real Life man-portable BFG, for the uninformed.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#278: May 25th 2010 at 2:09:38 AM

There are also a few instances of people stealing tanks and going on rampages in the U.S.

Who watches the watchmen?
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#279: May 25th 2010 at 2:46:26 AM

... What the f***? "Tanks" as in "honest to God military Tank Goodness"?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#280: May 25th 2010 at 7:01:27 AM

National Guard armories sometimes have tanks that can be stolen.

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#281: May 25th 2010 at 7:44:52 AM

You'd think that they'd keep 'em a little more secure.

Locking you up on radar since '09
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#282: May 25th 2010 at 9:33:12 AM

You'd think they wouldn't even need tanks. Seriously, modern tanks (as opposed to early tanks) were and are primarily designed to provide crushing fire support against other tanks, heavily fortified defense lines, and generally for the high shock factor against unprepared infantry. Which of these is the U.S. National Guard (or any National Guard force, for that matter) likely to face outside of being under a full-scale invasion*? Highly mobile armoured vehicles with strong anti-tank weapons but only "moderate" armour (a la Stryker) I can understand, but M1 Abrams is overkill for a almost purely defensive force.

(*)Which implies that the invaders can handle the regular armed forces and does not care for the strategic nuclear arsenal, at which point the National Guard should be screwed no matter how strong it is. By its very nature, the National Guard cannot be better at fighting than the Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines. Equal? Maybe. Superior? No, because logic dictates that it should replace its inferior in that role.

edited 25th May '10 9:35:08 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#283: May 25th 2010 at 10:21:48 AM

Seriously, modern tanks (as opposed to early tanks) were and are primarily designed to provide crushing fire support against other tanks, heavily fortified defense lines, and generally for the high shock factor against unprepared infantry

I've always seen tanks as being useful for digging out enemies that might otherwise overwhelm friendly forces, but aren't powerful enough to warrant close air support. As well, they can provide an impressive spearhead for an assault - the blitzkrieg style of warfare, anyone?

Locking you up on radar since '09
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#284: May 25th 2010 at 11:31:56 AM

Blitzkrieg, as it originally meant, is a different and slightly more complex tactic/strategy than that, but it does require a significant armoured element.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#285: May 25th 2010 at 11:41:02 AM

^ I'll take your word for it as I'm not a tremendous fan of the WWII ground war - its air war is my forte.

Also, I just heard on the news that North Korea is cutting all ties with South Korea. Gentlemen, war is now a real possibility.

Locking you up on radar since '09
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#286: May 25th 2010 at 11:44:36 AM

Just check The Other Wiki to get either a brief summary of what it is, or read the full article for all the details.

And I thought it was South Korea that was making the first move by terminating economic ties with the North.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#287: May 25th 2010 at 11:47:31 AM

Well, I was eating dinner at the time, so I wasn't paying 100% attention. All I know is that stuff might be going down in the near future.

Locking you up on radar since '09
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#288: May 25th 2010 at 11:59:58 AM

Well, assuming you didn't hear everything on why, it's all because it's officially been determined that the South Korean Navy warship that was sunk a few weeks ago was struck by a North Korean-fired torpedo; in light of this apparently flagrant violation of the 50-plus-year-old bilateral armistice, Washington DC has promised Seoul to haul Pyongyang's ass in front of the Security Council for this. We'll see how this new crisis will end in due time, but rest assured, it probably will not be pretty.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#289: May 25th 2010 at 12:09:10 PM

Knowing the Russians and Chinese, the Security Council option will go nowhere.

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#290: May 25th 2010 at 12:15:51 PM

^Wait, I thought that they were also starting to get rather... weary with Pyongyang's antics (although for reasons outlined in a different thread they may not be fully behind stopping 'em).

Locking you up on radar since '09
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#291: May 25th 2010 at 12:19:29 PM

The Chinese are notorious for opposing us in the UN Security Council even if it is agreeable to them.

The Russians just oppose us on general principle there.

Since both have veto power in the UNSC, why bother?

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#292: May 25th 2010 at 12:28:21 PM

Same Shit Different Day.

Two belligerent nations who have not really been friendly towards each other. Supposedly the North's Military has received orders to prepare for war. And they have severed all ties with each other and kicked all the South Koreans out of Kaesong.

Yummy Yummy Powder Kegs all it will take is just one bad incident to send the whole thing to hell and back.

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#293: May 25th 2010 at 12:34:11 PM

In this case it really does look like only a matter of time until one declares war on the other. Shit will really hit the fan then.

Locking you up on radar since '09
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#294: May 25th 2010 at 12:38:01 PM

Well, the only real variable here is China. UN veto or no, if China steps in militarily on North Korea's behalf, things will indeed get very ugly very fast. If they don't, North Korea can heavily damage Seoul, but at the cost of its own annihilation. I truly hope they aren't that stupid there, but I'm afraid they might be.

A complete withdrawal of Chinese economic support might do the trick without war, though, as unlikely as that may be to happen.

edited 25th May '10 12:38:22 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#295: May 25th 2010 at 1:19:41 PM

Seriously, if you give a dictator an inch they'll take a mile (although we may want to take the Reagan approach of "speak softly and carry a big stick").

Locking you up on radar since '09
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#296: May 25th 2010 at 2:18:52 PM

You know what's ironic in the modern conflict between the two Koreas? There is only thing that stands between the relatively well-equipped and well-fed South's modest war machine overpowering the North's own forces, which has been devastated by at least two decades of famines and poverty and is only armed with a currently outdated-and/or-in-dire-need-of-immediate-maintenance-or-replacement arsenal.

Nuclear weapons. Which Pyongyang has been quite happy to wave around and threaten both Seoul and Washington over the past 2-3 decades. As in, multiple times every year. Sometimes on issues that pretty much trivial in context.

Who are they kidding with the "We're going to nuke every American city unless you stop doing X" spiels? Do they even have ICBM capability in the first place? Not even Russia is that stupid or arrogant, and it is a well-known fact that they do have nuclear ICBMs... Specifically, Topol-M, the latest in their surprisingly well-maintained nuclear inventory, is infamously claimed to render all current anti-ballistic measures obsolete, short of the Mutually Assured Destruction-based deterrence strategy.

edited 25th May '10 2:21:10 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#297: May 25th 2010 at 2:26:04 PM

^ The Taepodong 2 as well as the Taepodong 1 are operational ICB Ms. The former being theoretically able to reach mainland areas of the US at its maximum most range. The latter able to hit any South Korean or Japanese target. Both are theoretically nuclear-capable but no nuclear warheads for them have presumably been built yet.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#298: May 25th 2010 at 2:35:50 PM

No, they are not "operational". Even The Other Wiki articles you cited affirm that all tests of both missiles did not manage to successfully deliver their payloads into orbit, and that the majority of their capabilities are shrounded in mystery and probably embellished by the North Korean propaganda machine, which pointedly refuses to acknowledge any "falsified rumours" of the tests' failures.

Behind Enemy Lines II: Axis of Evil really put North Korea's socio-economically disastrous situation into perspective for me.

DPRK ranking officer (don't remember his name): I am afraid that if our Dear Leader finds that there are Navy SEALs in the DPRK.. that would give him enough reason for the reunification.

Captive Navy SEAL: That'd be really stupid.

DPRK ranking officer: I think so too. I am afraid that our Dear Leader thinks that we are more powerful than we really are. I think people are afraid to tell him how hungry his soldiers are... how old his equipment is.

edited 25th May '10 4:21:22 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#299: May 25th 2010 at 2:41:48 PM

The problem is that the NK populace is pretty fanatical; so even a technologically superior force may be zerg rushed to death, or we may end up with a costly guerilla war.

Locking you up on radar since '09
DasAuto Sapere Aude from Eastphalia Since: Jul, 2009
Sapere Aude
#300: May 25th 2010 at 2:44:47 PM

This Analysis of North Korean defenses is pretty good. It also mentions the ICBM being only experimantal as of now.

ninja'd Every realistic scenario of a new Korea war is costly.

edited 25th May '10 2:46:42 PM by DasAuto

Now if you excuse me, Starfleet is about to award the Christopher Pike Medal to my dick.SF Debris

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