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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#24551: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:52:24 AM

Piccolo was about as strong as second form Freeza. Second form Freeza, the extraordinary measure the galactic tyrant, unmatched by any mortal until some weeks before, had to take once or twice.

Yeah no.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#24552: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:55:56 AM

Zombie!Vegeta could have made a plausible threat on the pure combat level though.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#24553: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:14:27 AM

*waves hands*
"Man, the Dead Zone is such a harsh environment. No wonder he got so much stronger while he was in there."

I have a message from another time...
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24554: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:32:29 AM

I learned to live with the Garlic Jr stuff. It doesn't matter (in a good way) so it's harmless.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:34:28 AM by VeryMelon

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#24555: Feb 2nd 2017 at 10:48:53 AM

[up][up] I mean, that's not to far from the handwave they did do.

And "power boosted by a galactic event that happens once an eon" is relatively reasonable for a handwave, really. Especially since even boosted, he was nowhere near fourth form Freeza (or probably even third).

Plus it explained both getting out the Dead Zone and being power boosted to the point of standing up to the current Z Fighters.

edited 2nd Feb '17 10:51:56 AM by Larkmarn

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#24556: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:02:49 AM

Wasn't Piccolo kinda out of the picture cause Kami was being tortured?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24557: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:12:21 AM

I think I might be in agreement with Saiga that it's weird how people act like Frieza should be some pinnacle and that it was ridiculous for other villains to surpass him in strength.

Like, yeah, Garlic Jr. wasn't as strong as Full Power Frieza, but there's not particular reason for that to be bad besides the point in the story the filler is happening.

It especially baffles me that people act like Gero making perpetual energy androids is somehow unbelievable but no one bats an eye at Bulma building a time-machine.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#24558: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:16:37 AM

[up][up]No, he was pretending to be mind controlled.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#24559: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:19:05 AM

It especially baffles me that people act like Gero making perpetual energy androids is somehow unbelievable

Because it is! He comes out of nowhere (due to being retconned in) and turns two punk kids into machines more powerful than the most powerful tyrant in the universe...by fricking accident (since he never saw anything on Namek). It's ridiculous really.

but no one bats an eye at Bulma building a time-machine.

...Ok. There, you have a point. It did take her forty years and a really desperate situation to pull it off though. Plus, Jaco the Galactic Patrolman implies the research was already being done just before the era of Dragonball too.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24560: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:21:09 AM

It took Bulma less than 17 years. And it undoubtedly took Gero years too. And Bulma and her father acknowledged Gero's work to be beyond them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24561: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:34:58 AM

It's not the perpetual energy machines that's unbelievable. It's the idea that two hapless humans with a battle power in the single digits get a few cybernetics that skyrocket them to suddenly being more powerful than the most power being in the entire universe, but still arbitrarily placing them at a point where they can reasonably be surpassed by Super Saiyans lifting some weights.

The existence of the Androids is fine. Their position on the Sorting Algorithm of Evil is what's f*cked.

edited 2nd Feb '17 11:36:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24562: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:37:36 AM

Not seeing why that's unreasonable either. At least with them and Cell there's a semblance of an explanation for their strength.

Frieza doesn't even have that besides "he's a mutant".

Personally, neither actually bothers me, but I don't see what's supposed to be okay with Frieza but not with them.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#24563: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:43:40 AM

Aliens are strong, mang.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24564: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:49:08 AM

Frieza gets a pass because he's a tautology. It's fine for him to exist because he necessarily must exist. He is the most powerful being in the universe. In a series where beings in the universe are ranked in power, there must necessarily be a most powerful being in the universe. It would be physically impossible for the universe to not have a most powerful being in it.

Frieza's concept proves itself. His existence is believable enough because he can't not exist. It's as simple as that.

edited 2nd Feb '17 11:49:25 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#24565: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:56:05 AM

[up][up][up] Cell is part freeza so keep that in mind.

I think it's mostly because Freeza is an alien and this the point when the humans were basically firmly in Can't Catch Up territory. So the fact that two cybernetically enhanced humans are stronger than some of the strongest aliens in the universe is a bit much.

It doesn't even have much to do with Freeza himself because they were stronger than the saiyans too before training.

edited 2nd Feb '17 11:56:48 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24566: Feb 2nd 2017 at 11:59:21 AM

[up][up]Wow, that's a terrible justification. By the same token it's fine for the Androids and Cell to exist (and then Buu) because as the series wasn't over, it would be inevitable for people more powerful than him to show up.

And being the most powerful didn't mean he had to be as powerful as he was, as is also frequently brought up. And it's ironic that I'm bringing it up, because, again, I don't have the same problem with that as a lot of you do.

My point being, you can't use meta reasoning to justify Frieza but then say it doesn't justify the Androids or Cell.

edited 2nd Feb '17 12:11:04 PM by LSBK

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#24567: Feb 2nd 2017 at 12:01:39 PM

I don't mind frieza being that strong. I do mind Ressurection F / super's "he gets stronger than super Saiyan Blue in 6 months" though. Like Seriously he has never trained in his life before this. He's got no training regiment.

edited 2nd Feb '17 12:03:32 PM by Ghilz

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#24568: Feb 2nd 2017 at 12:06:49 PM

4 months.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#24569: Feb 2nd 2017 at 12:07:11 PM

[up][up][up] that's not directed at me is it?

edited 2nd Feb '17 12:07:23 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24571: Feb 2nd 2017 at 1:29:00 PM

It's not a meta justification. It has nothing to do with being the most powerful being in the story. I mean the universe. That there exists someone who is more powerful than anyone else is entirely consistent with the established rules of the setting, in which some people are entire orders of magnitude more powerful than others.

You'll never see a Tier list where the #1 slot is blank. There is always a #1. No matter what's being measured, somebody fills that space. Go to a chess match, someone will win. Play Halo, someone's got the highest score. Watch football, someone's going home with the championship. It is not physically possible for there to not be a #1 in any ranked system.

That's all Frieza is. He's #1 on the list of strongest beings in the universe. Someone was always going to be Frieza, even if it wasn't Frieza himself. There can't not be a Frieza.

Conversely, it is entirely unbelievable that a slightly weaker Farmer with a slightly more advanced Shotgun manages to surpass Frieza after everything that had already been established about humans and their relative place on the galactic food chain. While Frieza is simply the natural conclusion of the series's Power Creep, the Androids openly violate the internal logic of the series.

edited 2nd Feb '17 1:30:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#24572: Feb 2nd 2017 at 1:37:46 PM

There doesn't always have to be a #1 or maybe more accurately, who it is doesn't have to be common knowledge and it on display like with Frieza.

So I disagree with your logic on that, and the rest of it. But this is old ground (that I usually stay out of) and probably shouldn't have brought it up (did I bring it up or was it in response to something else?), so let's leave it at that.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#24573: Feb 2nd 2017 at 1:38:07 PM

No, Majin Buu is the strongest, mortal being in the universe; Frieza never was. Even then, Shin is stronger than Frieza, and Beerus and Whis are stronger than Frieza, with Toriyama even saying that Frieza will never be able to match Beerus, no matter what he does.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24574: Feb 2nd 2017 at 1:40:21 PM

Majin Buu is a god-killing Eldritch Abomination, while Kaioshin and Beerus are deities. It is entirely excusable for them to be more powerful than the strongest mortal entity.

You and I seem to disagree on the definition of "mortal". Fortunately, nobody's arguing about whether they should be stronger than Frieza. The point of contention is the Androids.

edited 2nd Feb '17 1:41:26 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#24575: Feb 2nd 2017 at 1:43:39 PM

Buu isn't a god, therefore he's a mortal/human, or "ningen" according to Zamasu.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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