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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#22201: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:10:32 PM

Doubtful at this point. He's too bland.

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Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#22202: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:24:05 PM

No one have anything really to say about Baby?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#22203: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:25:43 PM

He was actually kind of cool but sort of lost that by the end of his arc.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22204: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:25:58 PM

He'a guy.

He existed.

He hates saiyans.

There. I said some things about Baby.tongue

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#22205: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:28:14 PM

He was basically Vegeta 2.0, especially since he ended that fight as a Great Ape, with some of Frieza's traits.

edited 12th Dec '16 9:28:32 PM by Ssj3Gojira

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Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#22206: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:29:52 PM

Well I meant more in relation to the list, but those are certainly things about Baby.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#22207: Dec 12th 2016 at 9:59:37 PM

I mean, I like how the Baby arc brought back the Oozaru into the fold. I hate how they immediately jobbed out Uub though, but then again, that's kind of what Dragonball does. [lol]

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#22208: Dec 13th 2016 at 7:45:26 AM

Vegeta's first fight becomes a lot less impressive when you realize that it is, beat for beat, a copy-paste of Piccolo Jr's fight.

Sort of? But even in places where it's similar, Vegeta's fight was cooler. The Beam Struggle could be said to be reminiscent of Piccolo's arena-destroying blast that Goku opted to tank rather than ring out, but while both were cool in their own way, Vegeta's planet-busting Galick Gun and Goku's retaliatory Kamehameha really show how the stakes have risen since Piccolo.

Also, Vegeta's giant form wasn't worthless garbage that he abandoned shortly after taking it due to its complete uselessness.

Lastly, at no point during the Piccolo fight was Goku rendered completely 100% helpless and left at the mercy of his allies' ability to take down the foe. Vegeta defeating Goku caps off the steady acceleration of Goku getting his shit broke by the foe.

  • Piccolo Daimao broke Goku's arm, but Goku came back from that and struck him down for the win.
  • Piccolo Jr. broke Goku's limbs and left him prone on the ground, but Goku came back from that and struck him down for the win.
  • Vegeta crushed Goku's body completely to the point that he couldn't move or fly or do anything to help himself, and Goku spent the rest of the fight coordinating Gohan and Krillin from his demolished state.

A case can be made that Vegeta's fight is basically "Piccolo III", but Vegeta's beats are bigger, meaner, and far more effective than Piccolo's were.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#22209: Dec 13th 2016 at 7:54:57 AM

Plus Goku couldn't fly during his fight with Piccolo Jr. At least not until the very end. So Vegeta's aerial sparring with Goku was a thing Goku hadn't done with Piccolo or Raditz.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22210: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:04:15 AM

Vegeta and Goku's beam struggle is more akin to Piccolo and Goku's beam struggle. They're even in the same locations relative to each other! Yeah, Vegeta's fight has more flying around and diverges at the end, but almost all the big moments are flat-out copied.

Also, Demon King Piccolo broke more than just Goku's arm, he broke all of Goku's limbs except one of his arms.

edited 13th Dec '16 8:07:35 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#22211: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:23:18 AM

Good thing his son was less thorough, and managed to miss Goku's vital organs.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#22213: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:29:22 AM

[up][up][up] So what I am getting is "If you ignore all the parts where the fights are different, they are the same!"

So long as you ignore the ending, the flying, the heightened stakes, the outside interference, which side is winning for most of the fight, the fact that Oozaru actually accomplishes something, they are in fact identical.

:-P

edited 13th Dec '16 8:30:24 AM by Ghilz

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22214: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:33:01 AM

There are more similarities between those two fights and any other fight in the franchise compared to either of those fights.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#22215: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:42:55 AM

Dunno, I'd say Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr. Both devastate the landscape, both cripple Goku, both lose by Goku finding a way to launch himself at his opponent.

:-P

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22216: Dec 13th 2016 at 8:57:46 AM

A beam clash between Goku standing on the ground and his opponent flying in the sky, Goku's opponent growing to a giant form, Goku's opponent creating a humongous spherical explosion that doesn't accomplish anything, attempted interference from the peanut gallery before Goku's opponent overwhelms them with his power, and Goku's opponent being ultimately defeated by a person haphazardly slamming into them.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#22217: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:01:16 AM

Goku's opponent being ultimately defeated by a person haphazardly slamming into them.

I think you're reaching for that one. Piccolo's case, it's Goku deliberately throwing himself at Piccolo (and a revisit of how Goku beat his dad).

Gohan literally fell on Vegeta while unmorphing and was asleep. :-P

I mean "haphazardly slamming into them" by that logic you can include a fuck ton of DB fights. Like Goku Vs Jacky Chun.

attempted interference from the peanut gallery before Goku's opponent overwhelms them with his power
Except not? the Peanut Gallery wins. Gohan turning into Oozaru (and then falling on Vegeta) is what saves them. Heck, their interference is literally all that keeps Goku from dying. During Piccolo's fight the peanut gallery doesn't get to really do anything. This is a similarity only if you reduce it to absurd levels.

Hell, Krillin and Gohan were not AT the fight, so they'd not be the peanut gallery. Only Yajirobe qualifies

Goku's opponent creating a humongous spherical explosion that doesn't accomplish anything

Technically that sets up his defeat since it make Gohan's tail grow back. Somehow...?

edited 13th Dec '16 9:07:41 AM by Ghilz

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#22218: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:13:58 AM

OK, so about Baby: what exactly is his origin and how is it confusing?

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22219: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:17:32 AM

He created Dr. Myuu to create himself.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#22220: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:22:52 AM

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#22221: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:25:08 AM

The logical route is that Baby actually existed prior to Myuu, part of some pre-Tuffle war project, and that he created Myuu as an assistant after he was damaged/injured/incapable of working himself. Myuu just forgot about that and the story led us to believe he created Baby. This fact is so irrelevant in the overall course of events it makes one wonder what the point of Myuu was except to rehash Dr. Gero.

I mean Gero built himself an android and had the android put his brain inside of an android body so I'd hardly consider this confusing. Brains are to Dragonball what eyeballs are to Naruto.

edited 13th Dec '16 9:26:45 AM by Soble

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#22222: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:25:16 AM

He's a parasite thing created by the Tuffles, who are the original inhabitants of Planet Vegeta (formerly Planet Plant) which was conquered by the Saiyans after they blew up their old homeworld/ Baby exists basically to fill that goal

Where stuff gets convoluted is that Baby creates "machine mutants" (including one that looks like Dr. Gero called Dr. Myuu, who he may have created or infected or who might have created baby, the plot sort of back and forths on all this) to gather energy so he can make himself a new body that's more powerful (never mind that Baby is a parasite so it could also just go and grab a body. Baby's also apparantly unaware that the saiyans are basically extinct, he does all this LONG before anyone's even heard of Goku)

Basically the actual means as to how Baby arises is convoluted as hell and doesn't make much sense.

edited 13th Dec '16 9:29:44 AM by Ghilz

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#22223: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:26:13 AM

The fuck?

Wouldn't it have been easier to just have Baby betray Miyu or something and not make it needlessly complicated?

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#22224: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:28:18 AM

Well then it' d be an even greater rip-off of Gero and the Androids.

And we can't have that.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#22225: Dec 13th 2016 at 9:30:58 AM

Why not just have Myuu be a Tuffle?


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