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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21851: Dec 5th 2016 at 7:45:48 AM

I'd guess it's because she's never seen a nude Saiyan with a severed tail before.

I have a message from another time...
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#21852: Dec 5th 2016 at 9:58:10 AM

The moon carrot was one of those remnants of Dr Slump era goofiness.

A Jade Rabbit pounding mochi, or elixir of life depending on the version, on the moon is something out of Chinese fokelore. It's something as old as Journey To The West.

Its so out of place though.

edited 5th Dec '16 10:00:10 AM by Memers

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#21853: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:17:19 AM

20: Kotchin and Wheelo

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21854: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:23:21 AM

So Slug didn't make the list either. Eh, not particularly surprising.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21855: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:25:17 AM

I'll bet Demon King Piccolo's in the list, though.

If we want to talk about villains who completely changed the tone of the series...

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#21856: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:29:42 AM

The one who really changed the tone of the series was Tambourine IMO, Piccolo was the big bad but damn Tambourine was the one to make the series go darker.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21857: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:35:52 AM

I'd still go to Taopaipai as the tone changer, who is the first to actually kill important characters (General Blue and Bora). while none of them have the importance of Krillin and Piccolo's other victims, Taopaipai is the first villain to actually kill anyone the audience has been following.

edited 5th Dec '16 11:36:02 AM by Ghilz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21858: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:43:45 AM

I wouldn't call Bora an important character. Goku met him like five minutes before he died. The only thing about Bora that's really important is what his death led Goku to do - namely, introducing the concept of wishing people back to life into the franchise.

General Blue totally qualifies, though. Taopaipai also holds a special place for being the first villain ever to truly be insurmountable and force Goku to seek further training in order to combat him again.

He's not the first person to win a fight with Goku, but he is the first to be depicted as truly unbeatable the way Goku is now.

edited 5th Dec '16 11:44:17 AM by TobiasDrake

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BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#21859: Dec 5th 2016 at 11:49:36 AM

I'm curious if they'll count the RR Army as one slot. Same thing with 17 and 18. Now that I think about if they do should they include 16 even though he's not evil.

35 year old white man.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#21860: Dec 5th 2016 at 12:05:49 PM

[up][up][up]I have to agree. Piccolo, and Tanborine took it to the text level (as did Raditz) but the whole who really started it was Tao Pai Pai. He was also the first outright villain to defeat Goku for real. No excuses, tricks or jokes, he just straight up beat Goku down.

That said, King Piccolo was the one who truly cemented the tone shift. The RR army arc ended in a joke, after all. Red's motivation was ridiculous and Black was defeated easily. It was just with King Piccolo that every arc started to have really serious weight to its conclusions. Even Buu went off in a serious note.

edited 5th Dec '16 12:06:32 PM by Heatth

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21861: Dec 6th 2016 at 9:51:17 AM

Kaiser making quips about who isn't on the list at the end is great. Is it just me?

Also: at the beginning of the countdown when they said "WEN CHRISTMAS!" there was a silhouette of Broly with a santa hat. So. I guess that's what we're getting on the 25th.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21862: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:44:37 AM

...now I kinda want to see Broly screaming "I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!"

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21863: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:54:12 AM

I mean, the one thing about Broly that I like and think was neat was the way that, design-wise, and in his first movie story-wise, he was as much of a Sun Wukong parody as Goku was.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#21864: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:55:32 AM

Yeah I think those little potshots are funny.

So are there any more movie villains we think can expect besides Broly and Beerus?

edited 6th Dec '16 10:55:52 AM by Moth13

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21865: Dec 6th 2016 at 10:57:15 AM

Android 13, obviously.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#21866: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:07:58 AM

[up] I'd say the fact that Cooler ranked so low pretty much killed any chance of 13 making the list. 13 is literally derivative Cell and, unlike Cooler, had no personality whatsoever.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#21867: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:08:32 AM

I would like to see Garlic Jr., honestly.

Firstly, Dead Zone was some genuinely interesting lore about the position of Kami. Secondly, he actually got immortality. Mind you, because writing is hard and the Mafuba is easy to forget he had to get sealed away (twice) via a ridiculous amount of stupid, but... yeah.

Oh, and I liked the Black Water Mist arc. I'm sad they didn't abridge it. It was filler, but it was great because it gave non-Goku characters some time to shine before they got even less relevant.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:08:57 AM by Larkmarn

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21868: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:09:47 AM

Well, nothing really important happened in that arc.

Plus, they've done little with the side characters unless it was something hugely important (or they wanted to make a joke out of it).

edited 6th Dec '16 11:10:34 AM by HandsomeRob

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#21869: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:10:02 AM

[up][up] Lani also mentioned in the Legacy of Goku II videos that he actually liked that filler arc, so that's probably another point in Garlic Jr's favor. tongue

edited 6th Dec '16 11:10:18 AM by Lionheart0

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#21870: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:13:23 AM

Jolly Broly, the Legendary Super Santa.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21871: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:17:36 AM

I don't know, 13 edges out Cooler in my book simply by the fact that although his movie has just as many wonky timeline issues as any other, the character at least fits comfortably into the universe.

Cooler is awkward because IIRC he's supposed to be more powerful than Frieza, the most powerful being in the universe. While the Androids in general are uncomfortably placed on the Sorting Algorithm of Evil for the same reason, an argument can at least be made that their technological assistance justifies being tougher than Frieza.

Similarly, characters like Beerus and Majin Buu manage to coexist just fine with Frieza because they are literally a god and a god-killing abomination, respectively. They do mean that Frieza's not the most powerful being in all possible existence, but they sidestep the "in the universe" claim by being on a divine scale rather than a mortal one. Dabura likewise gets away with being more powerful than Frieza by not being from this universe at all.

But Cooler has no such excuse. In a universe where Cooler exists and is stronger than Frieza, Frieza cannot be the Strongest in the Universe prior to Goku's ascension. And, excepting divine entities later introduced, that is literally his entire shtick.

13, on the other hand, is a really simple character concept. 13, 14, and 15 are just some more Androids. Between 8 and 16, Gero made some other Androids. Simple, to the point, doesn't overtly contradict anything or f*ck up anyone else's concept.

Like, you could even fanwank that the reason 13's a cheap ripoff of Cell is because he was the prototype for Cell's Android Absorption ability.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:20:27 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21872: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:22:48 AM

Is Cooler more powerful though?

I mean. Goku is able to fight his "fourth"/natural form pretty evenly without Super Saiyan. He's even able to fight Cooler's "fifth" form a bunch pretty well with the Kaioken.

I feel like the thing with Cooler is. Like, Frieza has all natural talent and never trained, Cooler puts effort in. His fifth form he unlocked. Like, it's not clear when he unlocked it, or how long after Frieza's death the movie is supposed to be. Like, he might not have actually gotten that transformation until after Frieza died.

I feel like a dynamic that makes sense is that Frieza is stronger naturally, with Cooler's training giving him a minimal edge at his full power.

Dabura likewise gets away with being more powerful than Frieza by not being from this universe at all.

I mean, the Demon Realm is in a little pointy thingy at the bottom of the universe, and I'm not entirely sure whether I'd qualify it as part of the universe or not.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:29:03 AM by unnoun

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21873: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:24:29 AM

I was joking when mentioning 13, but hey! If that's the one you like, no issue with me.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21874: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:30:33 AM

Goku doing well against Cooler's natural form is probably less a strike against Cooler's strength and more an example of Toei wanting to save Super Saiyan for a big dramatic moment. I think Saiga's had a lot to say about how Toei ignores how the characters actually fight for the sake of the dramatic.

TFS even made a joke about it in Super 17 when Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta all suddenly remember to go Super Saiyan at the same time when getting their asses kicked. There's no way any of them would have waited that long to do it, normally though.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21875: Dec 6th 2016 at 11:32:51 AM

I mean, Cooler being weaker than Frieza and still being alive isn't even an issue. Cold was weaker than Frieza and he was still around and had his own goons that he had help revive Frieza.

Frieza and Cold and their clan are like a mob family. Family is important to them. Not even necessarily out of sentiment but just. Image. Respect. Your family is an extension of yourself. A blow against them is, symbolically, one against you.

Like, yeah, in Resurrection F, Frieza dismisses the idea of bringing his dad back but. Like, that's not the same as killing the old man himself. And in terms of image, well, Frieza avenging his death wouldn't look bad.

edited 6th Dec '16 11:33:51 AM by unnoun


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