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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#21726: Dec 3rd 2016 at 11:40:01 AM

I think there's a large difference between altering a plot point or 2 and wanting to retool the direction of the entire series from the bottom up. The former is what I feel goes on more often than the latter, and the same people aren't doing both things at all.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21727: Dec 3rd 2016 at 12:35:10 PM

I think the reason Janemba outranks Cooler is that, while Cooler does have a personality, so much of his design and fight is Freeza+ (or even Freeza-), and thus ends up kinda forgettable. Janemba doesn't talk, and his physical design is clearly Buu-derivative, but his fight is extremely unique and visually appealing (Buu ain't got lego teleports, portal punches, or transdimensional jelly bean barriers), which I thought is why he got the edge over Cooler.

I have a message from another time...
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#21728: Dec 3rd 2016 at 12:47:20 PM

I'm hoping for Naturon Shenron to be on the list because he's a pretty unique villain, pretending to be an idiot until he has a hostage.

The legend has returned.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#21729: Dec 3rd 2016 at 1:23:45 PM

I'd actually be surprised if he wasn't.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#21730: Dec 3rd 2016 at 1:28:06 PM

So are there any villains who qualify that probably won't be on the list? I'm thinking at least Super 17 and Bio-Broly.

edited 3rd Dec '16 1:28:16 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#21731: Dec 3rd 2016 at 1:56:59 PM

That guy who shot Mr. Satan and caused Evil Buu to surface?

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#21732: Dec 3rd 2016 at 2:09:43 PM

[up][up] I'd be surprised if a lot of henchmen appear. For example, you could arguably place 7 of Freeza's henchmen from the Namek saga on the list (Dodoria, Zarbon, and all five members of the Ginyu force). In practice, I expect Captain Ginyu to be the only person of those seven to make the list. (Maybe Recoome's match with Vegeta/Krillin/Gohan or Zarbon's transformation have enough extra oomph to give them a position on the list, but I think neither is likely.)

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#21733: Dec 3rd 2016 at 2:12:59 PM

I don't know about you guys but I'm here to celebrate fiction, not tear it down

I'm not sure I agree with that understanding of what criticism is.

edited 3rd Dec '16 2:18:11 PM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#21734: Dec 3rd 2016 at 2:25:34 PM

Despite my love of Staff Officer Black as a villain, I would be shocked to see him anywhere on the list. Taopaipai is just more memorable, despite Black technically being the final boss of the Red Ribbon Army Arc.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21735: Dec 3rd 2016 at 2:57:04 PM

This post

Now I give Toei a lotta shit for just recycling arcs, but worse in their movies, but Cooler's pretty much the only time they've made a movie villain that has character. He's different enough from Frieza to be his own thing.

And then they ruined it with his second movie where he acted out of character.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21736: Dec 3rd 2016 at 3:32:13 PM

[up]

To be fair, he was just a head that suddenly merged with a sentient computer.

How much of him do we think was left. it's likely that he wasn't entirely Coola anymore.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#21737: Dec 3rd 2016 at 4:46:21 PM

So Janemba gets the edge over Cooler because he is, well, cooler.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21738: Dec 3rd 2016 at 5:51:51 PM

[up][up]Brain damage is no excuse for bad characterization. Don't forget that Goku has severe brain damage as well.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21739: Dec 3rd 2016 at 5:53:40 PM

Not really the same. Goku's characterization exists because of his brain damage; without it he would be an entirely different person.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21740: Dec 3rd 2016 at 6:24:38 PM

That was a joke.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#21741: Dec 3rd 2016 at 6:31:36 PM

While Janemba had no personality and was a retread of Buu, he still featured good design and some good fights to match Coolers, and also featured a bunch of really awesome abilities and setpieces. With the whole busting HFIL open and various cool powers, watching him in action was more interesting, and he also required a more unique method of defeating him than usual, through Goku and Vegeta fusing. While he wasn't very interesting as a character, he did create interesting situations to deal with.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#21742: Dec 3rd 2016 at 8:10:49 PM

I'd be surprised if a lot of henchmen appear. For example, you could arguably place 7 of Freeza's henchmen from the Namek saga on the list (Dodoria, Zarbon, and all five members of the Ginyu force). In practice, I expect Captain Ginyu to be the only person of those seven to make the list. (Maybe Recoome's match with Vegeta/Krillin/Gohan or Zarbon's transformation have enough extra oomph to give them a position on the list, but I think neither is likely.)

I'm actually expecting the Ginyu Force (save for maybe Captain Ginyu) to all get ranked together.

OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Constellation
#21743: Dec 3rd 2016 at 8:19:53 PM

Do you guys think they will include villains turned good onto the list? If so, I'd imagine Vegeta and Piccolo getting high placement on the list.

We are all made of star stuff. Very, very weird star stuff.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21744: Dec 3rd 2016 at 8:33:59 PM

Despite my love of Staff Officer Black as a villain, I would be shocked to see him anywhere on the list. Taopaipai is just more memorable, despite Black technically being the final boss of the Red Ribbon Army Arc.

Yeah. I agreed with your reasoning earlier for why he's a sorely underrated character, but for the specific category of best villains, the fact that he's only really the villain for about five seconds at the end of the arc is probably going to count against him pretty heavily.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21745: Dec 3rd 2016 at 10:19:59 PM

I agree with Zel's sentiments entirely but I am also confused, because weren't you writing a DB rewrite fanfic that was pretty much exactly what you're talking about? Not try to throw shade on you, I am legitimately confused by that.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#21746: Dec 3rd 2016 at 10:23:20 PM

His fanfic is just Goku being a woman I thought?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21747: Dec 3rd 2016 at 11:06:14 PM

Okay that's definitely not what I was thinking of

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#21748: Dec 3rd 2016 at 11:29:45 PM

-Cough-

Our fanfic, thank you. And yeah, I'm not quite sure what you're on about. The most we've done is change Goku's gender and spouse and made the humans mildly more useful. Nothing insane or significant, but they're not glorified doorstops, either.

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#21749: Dec 3rd 2016 at 11:31:26 PM

Zel PM'd me about it, and it sounded exactly like the Fix Fic overhaul he was talking about.

hell "mildly useful" humans completely breaks the tone of the series

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#21750: Dec 3rd 2016 at 11:51:18 PM

It's only a Fix Fic, I guess, in that we attempt to try and fix certain plotholes and other things that don't make sense, like establishing Gero's connection to the RRA earlier and making it more apparent.

My various fanfics.

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