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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21651: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:23:50 AM

Though the legend was referenced to goku a few times when he arrived on Namek.

  • Vegeta seemed to belivie that Goku had become a super saiyan
  • Ginyu even questioned it himself until he decided that his personality didn't match the legends.

Between Vegeta and Goku one of them was going to obtain it that arc.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21652: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:25:47 AM

@Ghilz: No Trunks means no android and no Cell. I'm confused. Do you mean that without Trunks the androids and Cell wouldn't exist? Wasn't Dr. Gero creating them during the course of the Saiyan and Namek arcs?
I mean the android saga doesn't happen as planned, since Trunk can't warn everyone. It's also implied Trunk's time travel's ripple effect is what made 17 and 18 both stronger and less evil. So that doesn't happen.

Similarly without Trunks, Cell can't travel to the past, he just becomes perfect in the future, since Future Trunks can't kill Future 17 and 18. Cell also looks different as he lacks Freeza's DNA.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:31:33 AM by Ghilz

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#21653: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:34:37 AM

[up] Did Androids actually become more powerful? I thought it was explained they were just holding back against him and Gohan because they weren't really a threat to them.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21654: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:36:15 AM

Yes, the androids in Trunks' timeline were holding back. Yes, the androids from the main timeline were still stronger than them.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21655: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:37:15 AM

I don't remember that being explained. I remember Trunks being shocked by how way more powerful 17 and 18 are in the present, as opposed to their future selves. And in history of Trunks, Future Gohan can actually hold his own against either Future 17 or 18 solo, he gets crushed when they team up. compare that with Vegeta against 18.

OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Constellation
#21656: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:37:42 AM

@Ghilz: Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks.

While on the topic of Cell, without Raditz, I'd imagine Cell would be vastly different than main timeline Cell. He wouldn't have the DNA of Raditz, Vegeta, Nappa, Frieza, King Cold, and Trunks. Without all the saiyan DNA, he'd probably not be as hot blooded and perfection focused and without Frieza's DNA Cell might not have been as tyrannical. I'd imagine this version of Cell would be comparable to Android 16; gun-ho at killing Goku then settling down and acquiring birds while ranging the shit out of some park somewhere.

We are all made of star stuff. Very, very weird star stuff.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21657: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:40:00 AM

Heck, without Frieza's DNA, it's possible Cell doesn't have multiple forms at all.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21658: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:42:51 AM

Yeah, as noted, it's not just Frieza that'd be missing from his makeup. Without Raditz, Cell lacks Vegeta and King Cold. He's half-Goku, half-Piccolo - with Toei adding a handful of the humans who aren't in his original makeup and thus never contribute anything to his actual capabilities.

No transformations, no ability to survive ridiculous amounts of damage. He's just the bastard spawn of a Saiyan and a Namekian, neither of which are even known to be things because Raditz never showed up and established them.

He can still grow back limbs and maybe he turns into a giant monkey. That's the climax.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:45:46 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21659: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:46:58 AM

He can still grow back limbs and maybe he turns into a giant monkey. That's the climax.

He can also turn giant period, since Piccolo can do that.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21660: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:48:59 AM

Yeah, but he loses a lot of speed by doing it. It's a bad technique, which is why no Namekian ever used it again, especially Piccolo.

The Oozaru, by contrast, can pack on a bunch of mass and power without sacrificing any speed, as Vegeta demonstrates. It is the superior giant form.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:49:16 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#21661: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:49:41 AM

Giant giant monkey? Pass the popcorn!

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21662: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:51:26 AM

Considering they would be less prepared this Cell would be a tough fight still especially if he decides to drink entire cities worth of people for a large amount of small boost in strength.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21663: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:55:13 AM

And his signature technique would probably just be the Kamehameha. I was thinking about how neatly "Makamehameha" fits together - probably "translated" to Special Beam Kamehameha in the dub, even though an actual translation would be more like Demonic Turtle Devastation Wave or just Demonic Kamehameha if they wanted to partial-translate it - but then I remembered that Piccolo wouldn't have the Makankosappo without the Raditz arc.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:56:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21664: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:02:39 AM

[up] wasn't he already working on that for killing Goku already?

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21665: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:02:45 AM

No-Raditz android saga would be quite the interesting thing to see, actually.

Of course, whoever wins that conflict, they eventually lose SUPER HARD when Babadi shows up.

I have a message from another time...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21666: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:07:31 AM

I don't remember that being explained. I remember Trunks being shocked by how way more powerful 17 and 18 are in the present, as opposed to their future selves. And in history of Trunks, Future Gohan can actually hold his own against either Future 17 or 18 solo, he gets crushed when they team up. compare that with Vegeta against 18.

It's from a daizenshuu or whatever it's called. I get why people like that explanation, but really, that being the case makes the comment meaningless. The point of the main timeline androids being stronger was to hammer in how much things had gone awry, because of Trunks' meddling. Going "no they were exactly the same strength, Trunks just didn't know it" goes against that, and really doesn't make sense because Trunks has fought the androids himself.

Also, Super Saiyan Vegeta from the main timeline is much stronger than the Gohan from Trunks' timeline, so that's not a good comparison.

edited 2nd Dec '16 10:08:43 AM by LSBK

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21667: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:14:49 AM

Also, Super Saiyan Vegeta from the main timeline is much stronger than the Gohan from Trunks' timeline, so that's not a good comparison.

That's exactly my point. Vegeta gets steamrolled by 18, but Future Gohan, fighting future 18 solo, can hold his own, so clearly Present 18 outclasses Future 18.

Hell, Raditz' legacy stretches to Super. If Goku doesn't beat Freeza, it never makes Beerus curious about super saiyans. Heck, without the previous Sagas to build them up, it's likely Buu (Or Dabura, mirroring Future Dabura's timeline in Super) kills all the Kais, which kills Beerus. And Goku, assuming he's not dead already, hasn't met Zeno, and got the summon Zeno button. Zamasu never meets Goku So no Goku Black

edited 2nd Dec '16 10:15:49 AM by Ghilz

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21668: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:19:28 AM

[up]Oops. I wasn't paying attention, I meant to quote the person above you.

optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#21670: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:50:39 AM

#23 is up.

I thought they'd put him higher.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21671: Dec 2nd 2016 at 10:53:25 AM

Expected. He's got the issue of a lot of movie villains in that he's a rehash of an existing one. What makes him notable is he got 2 movies.

Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#21672: Dec 2nd 2016 at 11:04:15 AM

Too bad the rest of the choices won't be Cooler.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21673: Dec 2nd 2016 at 11:08:50 AM

Yeah, when you get down to it, Cooler is just discount Frieza and that's enough of a reason to put him on the list, but not enough for him to be really high up on it.

edited 2nd Dec '16 11:21:57 AM by LSBK

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21674: Dec 2nd 2016 at 11:20:36 AM

I wonder if any movie villains will place above any series villains.

I have a message from another time...
Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#21675: Dec 2nd 2016 at 11:22:08 AM

[up] Beerus will if they are counting him. Still not sure if they will though.


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