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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21626: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:26:16 AM

I love how nobody here's said a single thing about their #24 pick.

Because, really, what's there to say?

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#21627: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:34:02 AM

I am shocked it was as high as 24... I mean it had the least characterization out of any villain ever in DB.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#21628: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:38:49 AM

It is Godzilla versus DBZ, and that is a quite neat concept. But that's it, points for originality.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21629: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:44:00 AM

I like Hirudegarn more than most movie villains. At least he didn't try to have a character.

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21630: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:46:56 AM

Yeah, they basically said he got in entirely on design and wow factor alone.

Still, I think it's heartening to see that their #24 still has some good things to say about. A nice precedent for the rest of tbe list.

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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#21631: Dec 2nd 2016 at 6:48:42 AM

Vegeta and Piccolo Jr. really shouldn't be high on the list. Because while they were villains, and while they were excellent, they weren't necessarily excellent villains. Their best parts weren't while they were villains. Vegeta until he becomes an antihero was boring. Like, super-dull. He never became actually interesting until... probably the fight with Freeza. By that point calling him a villain is just incorrect.

Piccolo to a much lessor extent, though. His best parts were in DBZ where he was a hero, but he was still pretty awesome in DB. If they want to give him the top spot for his DB actions then I'm fine with that, I just don't want them to conflate the two.

edited 2nd Dec '16 6:51:57 AM by Larkmarn

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21632: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:40:38 AM

Vegeta is still super evil in the fight with Frieza. He's fighting with the good guys out of necessity not because he's become a better person.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#21633: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:42:23 AM

Still, he's no longer an antagonist by that point and won't be one anymore until the Buu saga.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21634: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:45:58 AM

He's still antagonistic for a good portion of the arc, though, and if they don't exclude him because nothing about him really changed by that point, I'd get it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21635: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:48:38 AM

Those of you with a good memory will remember that I once mentioned my favorite villain in the series, and while it's an unorthodox choice, Staff Officer Black is still my favorite villain in the franchise. The combination of being soft-spoken, polite and no-nonsense, combined with his unwavering belief in the Red Ribbon Army's goal of world domination, even to the point of shooting his superior officer for treason upon learning his true intentions for the Dragon Balls, just makes him such a likable, understandable, and honest villain that he really stands out in this franchise.

You know, I agree with this. Black's only mistake was that he didn't stop the fight with Goku before it was too late. By the time he realized it wasn't worth it to keep going, Goku was in no mood to let him go and he died because of it. The Red Ribbon army would still be kicking (likely with Gero Androids in their service) if he'd known when to fold them a little earlier.

I'm also hoping Tao gets in for the reasons mentioned.

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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#21636: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:50:28 AM

[up][up][up][up] He's evil, but he's not a villain. He's not heroic, but he's still technically a hero.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
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#21637: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:50:39 AM

Eitherway, Vegeta still becomes one of the main character of the show, so in terms of impact, no other villain compares. Even Piccolo doesn't get the spotlight Vegeta gets.

The Red Ribbon army would still be kicking (likely with Gero Androids in their service) if he'd known when to fold them a little earlier.

YMMV, Black still wanted the dragonballs, just for Red Ribbon Army reasons. And Goku needed them, so the faceoff was inevitable.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:52:05 AM by Ghilz

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21638: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:55:05 AM

Yes, but at that point, after he'd roflstomped the whole army on his own, backing down, letting Goku take them, and rebuilding stronger was a better option then continuing that fight.

I can't blame him for thinking he could solve the problem with giant mecha to the face but it was very much a mistake.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21639: Dec 2nd 2016 at 7:58:38 AM

[up][up][up]No he's not, at best he's an anti-villain at that point. Honestly that describes Vegeta for most of the series. The only time I think he actually counts a "hero" is after he comes back to his senses from the whole Majin deal.

Just fighting with the main characters because you have no other choice, with ever intention to kill them later yourself, does not a good guy make.

edited 2nd Dec '16 8:00:23 AM by LSBK

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#21640: Dec 2nd 2016 at 8:04:09 AM

I agree that he's not a hero but he's absolutely a protagonist during the entire period between him teaming up with Gohan and Krillin to fight the Ginyu Force to getting mind-controlled. Even then, Majin Vegeta and Saiyan Saga Vegeta are arguably different villains in terms of motivation and goals.

edited 2nd Dec '16 8:04:59 AM by LordVatek

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#21641: Dec 2nd 2016 at 8:06:30 AM

I'm taking a "wait and see" stance. We'll know eventually.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21642: Dec 2nd 2016 at 8:33:50 AM

Who is the villain with the biggest lasting impact on the story?

For all that he's forgotten later I'd say that crown might go to Raditz. His arrival and his fight set about 3 arcs into motion and permanently changed the tone and scope of the story, and ultimately changed the course of Piccolo's life, to boot.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21643: Dec 2nd 2016 at 8:37:55 AM

I said that earlier!

And I'd agree that Raditz is basically what changes everything, and though he dies, everything up to Trunk's arrival and his killing Freeza is a direct consequence of Raditz.

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#21644: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:03:27 AM

Still, he's no longer an antagonist by that point and won't be one anymore until the Buu saga.

And even that's just for like five seconds.

I agree with the sentiment that Vegeta as a villain only counts until he flees Earth in his Saiyan pod to recuperate. He's still 100% rotten, dirty bastard through Namek and most of the Cell Saga and he relapses into it during Buu, but he's still a protagonist through nearly all of that.

Piccolo, likewise, only counts during the Daimao and 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Once Raditz lands, Piccolo ceases to be a villain and never picks up the villain ball again.

Regarding Staff Officer Black

I can appreciate that reasoning for him. I've always felt that the Red Ribbon Army in general has been generally underrated. Yes, Goku plows through them like a steamroller in an orphanage but that, in and of itself, is what makes it great. What Toriyama created with this arc was one of the best pieces of foreshadowing he's ever accidentally done.

Because when Raditz lands and says that Goku is an alien planet-killer from a species where even their children can butcher entire armies and slaughter legions of soldiers, it rings true. Before Saiyans were even a concept in Toriyama's mind, we got to see Goku demonstrate exactly what a Saiyan is capable of and why they are such a great and terrible threat to the universe.

Regarding best villain

For me, as should be no surprised to anyone, I'm rooting for Frieza. After spending an entire arc being built up as completely impossible to match, beyond the limits of anyone's imagination, you will die if you fight him no matter what...Frieza delivered. A lot of times, this kind of shilling is just setting up for the hero to overcome the impossible because he's awesome, but Frieza f*cking delivered.

Frieza faced everything the franchise had to throw at him. The protagonists pulled out every gun in Chekhov's Armory. Every cool technique and strategy that had ever worked for them before, they threw it all at Frieza and he waded through it with no f*cks given. He proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that every other character was right when they said that fighting him was a mistake because he cannot be beaten - not even by the almighty Goku.

The one misstep I feel that was taken with Frieza was having Goku pull Super Saiyan out of his ass right there on the spot for no other reason than because he couldn't win without it. It's another consequence of Toriyama not planning ahead. He saw the insanely ridiculous power gap between Ginyu and Frieza as necessitating a Deus ex Machina, whereas I see it as meaning Goku isn't supposed to be fighting this opponent at this stage.

Fighting Frieza on Namek is like fighting Vegeta immediately after the Red Ribbon Army. A power gap of that magnitude typically means you've jumped off the rails on the Sorting Algorithm of Evil and are about to get Beef Gated back into your proper position. Rather than ass pulling a new power-up on the spot to win, the victory condition of this fight should simply have been to escape. Frieza clearly establishes himself as an enemy for a later date.

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OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
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#21645: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:09:21 AM

Also, Gohan wouldn't have been a fighter without Raditz's involvement. Without Raditz, Piccolo wouldn't have abducted Gohan in preparation for Vegeta and Nappa. So, once the androids show up, who would be able to fight them?

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#21646: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:13:18 AM

More importantly, no Raditz means Vegeta never comes to Earth, never goes to Namek, never returns to earth and gets Bulma Pregnant. So no Trunks. No Trunks means no android and no Cell.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#21647: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:15:17 AM

Super Saiyan isn't an Ass Pull because it was talked about and mentioned plenty of times beforehand.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#21648: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:17:07 AM

Tobias is saying that Goku getting it was his problem.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21649: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:18:33 AM

It might not exactly be an Ass Pull, but I get why someone would consider it a let down given context. Like Tobias said, its sole reason for existing at that point is so Goku could be Frieza.

OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Constellation
#21650: Dec 2nd 2016 at 9:21:29 AM

@Ghilz: No Trunks means no android and no Cell. I'm confused. Do you mean that without Trunks the androids and Cell wouldn't exist? Wasn't Dr. Gero creating them during the course of the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

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