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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21476: Nov 29th 2016 at 10:12:26 AM

I would say it is similar to piccolo Jr versus Goku in the world marital arts tournament and Goku was tortured also. The only difference is Goku actually had a chance at winning and videl ended up against an opponent that would probably already have been tough getting a power increase thanks to the majin control.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21477: Nov 29th 2016 at 10:35:28 AM

Videl isn't an alien who gets stronger after getting her bodied nearly destroyed, nor is she a fight junkie like said aliens either.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#21478: Nov 29th 2016 at 10:40:19 AM

So, that "fight" just went on a little too long for some kind of torture...

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21479: Nov 29th 2016 at 10:52:47 AM

She also came in at the point where even her fellow humans had received superior forms of training.

She could be trained by Korrin, but Kami is gone, so she can't get quite the same type of training that Goku and the others did....no wait, she probably could since Piccolo could do it.

King Kai is dead, so unless she's willing to ask Goku to teleport him to his planet, she can't train there either.

And she will never be strong enough for the room of time and spirit.

I'm seriously wondering if Oda TORIYAMA had any plans for her beyond Gohan's girlfriend.

Edit: Leaving the mistake in, to remind myself not to mix up my Mangaka.

edited 29th Nov '16 10:53:35 AM by HandsomeRob

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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21480: Nov 29th 2016 at 11:01:52 AM

Probably not. I don't think he has plans for any character beyond the arc they were introduced in, especially since there's numerous points in the series where he's making it up as he goes along.

Which has a strong possibility of being the reason why so many characters are left behind as the story progresses.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21481: Nov 29th 2016 at 11:14:32 AM

That's actually exactly why they get left behind. Unless he gains some interest in them (Krillin, Vegeta, Piccolo), once their arc is done, they aren't really relevant.

Right now, Vegeta's ongoing goal of surpass Goku is keeping him in the game (especially now that he recognizes that it's something he has to work for, as opposed to something he inherently deserves), but everyone else is done with.

That's not so bad. They've moved on, had families (and most anime consider that when the series ends), and overall found good lives for themselves.

It's a little frustrating we didn't get more out of some of them, but still.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#21482: Nov 29th 2016 at 12:18:46 PM

I've always loved the Videl/Spopovich fight, because of how brutal it was (on both sides), and how emotionally heated it was (on both sides) considering how it's a fight between a character who was just introduced and a character very recently introduced. Spopovich lost to Hercule in the 24th, badly, so it makes sense that, when hopped up on evil magic, he'd be willing to go to the extremes we see him go to in a fight against the daughter of the man who humiliated him. Videl just learned how to harness her Ki and fly, and she still fights valiantly. Hell, she wins! She breaks his damn neck, if he wasn't hopped up on evil bullshit magic, she would've killed him (and then promptly gotten disqualified). Her just refusing to go down against an opponent she could otherwise beat easily while he tortures her, and everyone on the sidelines yelling at her to give up and being horrified at him for continuing to pummel her, was just so viscerally and powerfully emotional, especially for a scene involving two relatively unimportant characters, in the grand scheme of things.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#21483: Nov 29th 2016 at 12:26:27 PM

King Kai is dead, so instead of hanging out in the afterlife, he's hanging out in the afterlife.

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21484: Nov 29th 2016 at 12:41:25 PM

Also, that entry that was being discussed (about Chichi learning subservience) is not only incredibly biased, but also talking about a filler arc.

Oh good. I've been sitting here going, "The f*ck mountain are they talking about?" through this conversation. I remember that the Dragon Ball anime had a final filler arc between the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and Raditz's arrival but recall no details of it, and this "mountain that repels women" is something I cannot for the life of me recall ever even hearing about.

Regarding Videl's match

While I agree wholeheartedly with everything that's been said about it being needlessly stupid, cruel, misogynistic, etc. I do want to note that I can understand why they didn't stop the match. Soble nailed it here:

The tournament committee gives zero f'cks. They're contractually obligated to give zero f'cks unless tournament committee property/assets are in some way damaged, or if the audience is somehow threatened.

They don't stop the match. They never stop the match. Goku turned into a giant monkey and they didn't stop the match. Piccolo blew up the stadium and they didn't stop the match.

As long as both fighters are in the ring and neither's been down for a tencount, the match is on. Goku won the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai while both his arms and legs were broken. Stopping the match for Videl when they have never stopped it for any male combatant who was getting wailed on would have been more misogynistic, not less.

Personally, I would be okay with Videl getting stomped the way she was if it was setting her up to come back and take down Spopovich in the rematch. Which could have been a thing if she'd actually made it to Babidi's ship, rather than deciding halfway there that she's too weak and slow and useless, and then going home instead.

Toriyama set her up with an adversary, had her on her way to face said adversary, and then was like, "Mmm...nah," and unceremoniously got rid of both of them.

edited 29th Nov '16 12:42:22 PM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21485: Nov 29th 2016 at 12:52:31 PM

[up]

Yes.

Though she would have needed more training first. As far as I know, she wasn't using her ki to enhance her blows. She only knew how to use it to fly.

But yeah, this is exactly how it was. It can't be helped. Makes it up as he goes along remember. Some would note that anyone who was weak enough to be beaten by Videl could be eliminated by Goku in seconds. They aren't wrong, but sometimes, it's not about that.

We've seen Goku et al fight and stomp everyone into paste. We know they will. So let them fight the real big shots. Let them fight the guys that are going to actually challenge them instead of having them handle every fight.

I would have loved to see Videl come back to challenge old Spoppy and avenge herself against her while Goku, Gohan and Vegeta take care of the bigger bad. That could have been the start of a good arc for her, but Dragonball doesn't work that way.

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theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#21486: Nov 29th 2016 at 1:37:17 PM

Videl is still a competent martial artist in her own right though; she had Spopovich well in hand and would have killed him if it weren't for Babidi making him basically immortal.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21487: Nov 29th 2016 at 1:42:33 PM

Agreed.

I've actually theorized that she was initially trying to throw him out of the ring, but only failed due to his sheer weight (though he might have been using his powers to fall short, which considering the control he had his Ki attack, isn't so out there), so resorted to just trying to knock him out.

To put it another way, if she'd received a bit more training from Gohan to fire energy blasts, and better channel her ki, she'd have probably pasted him much more easily. She's the better fighter for sure, it' just that his power was boosted to the point where her actual skill was irrelevant.

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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21488: Nov 29th 2016 at 2:06:39 PM

Gohan would probably have had more time if he had kept up with his training. Since he didn't he had to help both video and Goten while getting himself back into fighting shape. The other problem is the sheer incompetence of the supreme Kai through the arc.

Videl more turned back also because she couldn't keep up and understood she was slowing them down also. She was certainly not used to flying fast yet and lacked any training to keep up with the others without training and time which unfortunately they didn't have.

Would have been nice to get a preliminary round instead of the punch machine and more of the fights for the tournament before the main plot started.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21489: Nov 29th 2016 at 4:02:00 PM

Honestly, any human being able to keep up with the aliens/alien hybrid at that point would have been BS. Especially Videl considering the fact that comparing her power to literally anyone else going would be like comparing the flame of a match to the sun. She wouldn't even be able to keep up with Yamcha.

Really, Videl was introduced at a point where she wouldn't be able to do anything important. Even now, in Super, there is never anything of importance (that most of the fandom considers important, anyway) that she could do due to the impossibly large gap between her and literally everyone except the Pilaf Gang and Pan.

Honestly, Videl might have given up on fighting when she realized how pointless it was. When your boyfriend/husband and his family can destroy planets by sneezing and are fighting things that threaten the entire universe/multiverse, what point is there in being a fighter? She's already stronger than most every human on the planet and possesses abilities that make regular tasks a breeze (cleaning under furniture and reaching items on the top shelf has never been easier). While she might be able to surpass Yamcha since he hasn't trained since the Androids, it's doubtful that she'd be able to surpass Ten and there's basically no way she'd be able to surpass Krillin unless she dedicated all of her time to training for Dende knows how long. Even if she did surpass Krillin in strength, she'd be just as incapable of doing anything as she was before.

When faced with such a reality, it's understandable that she'd just give up and do other things she finds enjoyable that aren't completely meaningless.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21490: Nov 29th 2016 at 4:04:15 PM
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21491: Nov 29th 2016 at 4:23:36 PM

But yeah, this is exactly how it was. It can't be helped. Makes it up as he goes along remember. Some would note that anyone who was weak enough to be beaten by Videl could be eliminated by Goku in seconds. They aren't wrong, but sometimes, it's not about that.

And at the ship, it really isn't about that. They picked opponents via Jenkin. That's why Vegeta had a pushover of a match and Goku won his by literally just being a Super Saiyan, but Gohan struggled against a foe Vegeta or Goku could have steamrolled.

Just add Videl into the mix and it would be entirely consistent for the Super Saiyans to stand there while she faces Spopovich.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21492: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:30:52 PM

Hell, they really shouldn't have been fighting one by one anyway. If they weren't dicking around (and why did Gohan even agree to do that) they'd have stopped everything well before Babidi had a chance to (fail to) mind jack Vegeta.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#21493: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:59:24 PM

The only person taking the threat of Majin Buu seriously was Kaioshin. Everyone else was just like, "Pfft, we're like ten times stronger than the most powerful being in the universe before we came along. Worst case scenario, we'll roflstomp Buu and share a hearty laugh. What's the worst that could happen?"

Buu happened and got as far as he did because the protagonists are, as Dende so eloquently put it, a cavalcade of f*ck-ups.

edited 29th Nov '16 7:00:27 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#21494: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:06:14 PM

Not only that, the show tried to pin the blame on her for not giving up against Spopovitch.

And after the fight? Goku claims he's going to get her a senzu....but decides to stuff his face at Korins place for awhile instead until he finally remembers he should probably get that girl a senzu bean.

All while Satan is crying over his little girl and Gohan is wondering what is taking his dad so long.

Can't quite recall if that was filler or not, but it was a serious dick move in the anime at least.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#21495: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:16:32 PM

She could be trained by Korrin, but Kami is gone, so she can't get quite the same type of training that Goku and the others did....no wait, she probably could since Piccolo could do it.

I dunno. His training methods are a little dodgy.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#21496: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:17:35 PM

Bruh.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21498: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:44:34 PM

You know what's funny?

When Piccolo was first training Gohan, he complained that Gohan was dodging too much and wasn't attacking.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#21499: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:03:13 PM

He couldn't dodge by the time he decided to fight back...

Dodge and Attack at the same time = impossible

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LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#21500: Nov 29th 2016 at 10:43:20 PM

The Videl/Spopovich stuff is still terrible, but even without it, I wouldn't have expected Videl to be particularly helpful in the series. The only reason she even gets brutalised in the first place was to give The Hero (at that point of the story) Gohan a personal motivation for dealing with these guys.

You don't introduce a human after humans were proven to be completely irrelevant and then try and make them relevant to the story fighting-wise. Heck, Chi-Chi was introduced before humans were proven useless, and she was still written to be too weak to matter.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!

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