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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#21451: Nov 29th 2016 at 5:16:39 AM

Yesh, she should've given up after the big bald bad guy recovered from a broken neck. At some point it just became dumb stubbornness.

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JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#21452: Nov 29th 2016 at 5:20:00 AM

I remember Gohan making a huge fuss, asking people to stop the match. He went Super Saiyan and everything. And in the Portuguese dub he even blurted out a sexist line in the process ("Don't be ashamed to quit, Videl! You're a girl!").

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#21453: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:14:42 AM

Well since it came from Gohan, it probably wasn't sexist. He, unlike every other guy in the series, has read books. He probably knows males generally have greater muscle mass and denser bones than females, so males are more durable by default.

Then again, Gohan never was that blunt and would be well-versed enough in social etiquette to not add that "you're a girl" part.

Hmm.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21454: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:29:12 AM

Yeah she gets points for courage, but one should always know their limits.

[up]Portuguese gohan might be more blunt possibly.

edited 29th Nov '16 6:30:44 AM by Darthwyn

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21455: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:33:03 AM

As for why no one stepped in, I believe Gohan was going to until Goku stopped him. Goku is a stickler for the Budoukai rules (see his fight with Piccolo at the 23rd Budoukai) and everyone listens to Goku no matter what (see his fight with Piccolo at the 23rd Budoukai).

I wonder if the announcer has the power to stop fights. Surely he'd be able to. Especially when the Budoukai became more of a spectacle.

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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21456: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:41:25 AM

I would have to guess the plan became the moment she surrendered someone steps in if her opponent decided to ignore her surrender. The officials probably can't do anything since this was a guy that snapped his neck back Into place.

The reason gohan didn't get a shot at him was because the Kai and their lack of sense seemed to help their enemy get what they wanted.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#21457: Nov 29th 2016 at 6:53:25 AM

Gohan was stopped from stepping in. Also, having him avenge her later would have put a bad taste in my mouth. 'Take that fiend! How dare you sully the honor of my woman!' Especially since he's so ridiculously strong compared to Spoppy.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21458: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:05:27 AM

Given how many people complain over Vegeta's rage boost when Beerus slaps Bulma, I can't, and don't want to, imagine the rage people would have if that happened.

Personally, I'm fine with him being popped by Babidi.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21459: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:30:07 AM

No, see, if it was Gohan people would be fine with it., because Gohan can do no wrong.

edited 29th Nov '16 7:31:11 AM by LSBK

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#21460: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:39:38 AM

The fact that he wasn't actually cheating doesn't change the complete lack of class in his actions (especially once he pulled her back into the ring to continue the match). I mean, if he'd continued, he likely would have killed her, so you'd think they'd make an exception and just stop the fucking match.

I'm... pretty sure the tournament committee allowed a grown man to beat the tar out of a boy no older than 11, and electrocute him in front of an audience. They let bubble gum-breathing pterodactyls and even a creature sharing Piccolo's name enter, and, IIRC, Tien and Tao didn't have any compunctions about killing their opponent.

The tournament committee gives zero f'cks. They're contractually obligated to give zero f'cks unless tournament property/assets are in some way damaged, or if the audience is somehow threatened.

edited 29th Nov '16 1:06:28 PM by Soble

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#21461: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:41:41 AM

To be fair, even if she did die, they could just revive her with the Dragon Balls. It's not like death has any real consequence in Dragon Ball so long as they're around.

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#21462: Nov 29th 2016 at 7:46:06 AM

The afterlife looks pretty boring. Isn't that a consequence?

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#21463: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:23:18 AM

I suppose it would depend on how one looked at it, but I certainly would have just viewed it as gohan getting payback on her behalf since she isn't strong enough to do so.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21464: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:26:36 AM

If you're cynical, you can look at it in such a negative light. Or you can be positive about it, so really it depends on where you stand on the whole "sexism" issue.

Truthfully, I just wanted a bully to get what was coming to him, but then I was a dumb 8 year old.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21465: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:30:32 AM

I'm actually not too keen on the "retribution for a lover" thing in general. It usually applies to female characters, but I find it pretty distasteful against males too.

Given the situation there's some leeway, but I just can't really go for the "you hurt my loved one while they were willingly participating in battle and were just better than them". It just feels hollow and Protagonist-Centered Morality laced.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21466: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:33:36 AM

I'm going to give Videl at least a bit of a pass on not surrendering.

Yes, the moment he reset his broken neck, she should have probably gone nope! down with this shit! and gotten the fuck out of her, but you have to remember who she is.

The Daughter of Mr. Satan. The Hero who defeated Cell, and a local hero in her own right. She likely felt obligated to win to hold up the family legacy. So not surrendering even when it must have become very, very clear she could not win was never an option for her, because if her dad could beat Cell, then she must be able to beat this dude who her dad stomped three years earlier.

As for Gohan avenging her, I kinda agree that it wouldn't have been good. Spopovitch got what was coming to him, but it feels wrong that she doesn't even get the chance to get him back. In the end, it's just.....he's not even important, so it feels like the whole thing was just to make sure she went back to the kitchen where she belonged.

And since both Toei and Toyatarou are going off the notes that Toriyama gave them for Super, I guess that was always what he intended for her, or it's what he decided he wanted her to do, which is in contrast to how he portrayed her before.

Right. Long story short, I just think it would be nice if DBZ had more female fighters, but that's unlikely, due to both the power creep and Toriyama being a bit too old school in his thinking when it comes to his female characters (writing them as jokes, or turning them into housewives).

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21467: Nov 29th 2016 at 8:58:03 AM

[up][up] That's a good point, but Videl vs. Spopovich wasn't a fight; he could have ended the match early if he wanted, but just kept torturing Videl. It's as much his fault as it is Videl's for refusing to quit against an opponent she couldn't win against.

That's why I don't see it as negative as people as most would, because even if Videl wasn't Gohan's girlfriend, I think it's a reasonable response to want to pay back somebody who tortured someone you cared about.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21468: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:03:22 AM

Well, I did say I view that particular situation a bit differently.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21469: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:05:02 AM

Yea, only if you're extremely cynical (and to be fair, Arha is :V) can you really call that sexist, since it's probably a realistic response anyone would have. It'd only really be sexist if they focused on her being a girl, rather than ya know...the fact she's getting the shit kicked out of her.

edited 29th Nov '16 9:06:00 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21470: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:06:39 AM

Being sexist and realistic aren't mutually exclusive.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21471: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:10:42 AM

In this case, I feel it is.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#21472: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:18:18 AM

Well, I'd expect that if it had been a male character who was tortured like that, (like if it had been Krillin) a desire to avenge him would be ok. The potential Double Standard of Spopovitch beating up a guy might get in the way though.

Hard to put that one into words. I just get the feeling a big part of why what Spopovitch did was bad was less because he was beating someone half to death (which is still a big thing) and more because he was doing it to a girl. It shouldn't be, but it is.

I'm more then willing to be proved wrong and yelled at for this if anyone disagrees though.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21473: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:21:52 AM

I think it's less "A man beating on a woman" and more "A grown adult is beating on a child" because Videl can't be any older than 16 at that point. Think that's where the disgust comes from.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#21474: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:28:37 AM

That aspect was always present in the tournament though. Honestly, I think it's better to focus on the fact that he was torturing her, and clearly enjoying it, than any age or gender politics.

edited 29th Nov '16 9:38:45 AM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#21475: Nov 29th 2016 at 9:36:43 AM

Yea basically, that's how I always viewed it anyway.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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