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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20926: Oct 28th 2016 at 9:48:10 PM

That's not backed up by the story at all. We see it cut two people stronger than Kuririn, that's not nearly enough to say it can cut anything.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20927: Oct 29th 2016 at 8:37:35 AM

Well, then lets agree that it can cut people stronger then the user and leave it at that.

Right now, that's the most important thing since, barring the anime, it's always managed to do a little damage against whoever it's been used on.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20928: Oct 29th 2016 at 10:22:35 AM

Using Second Form Frieza's tail as a point of reference, Krillin had a battle power of 75,000 at the time. Maybe less, depending on whether his potential unlock had finished its gradual work, but we'll estimate that he was finished because it's the closest thing to a solid number we have.

Frieza had a battle power of ~1 million in his Second Form. If we assume the Kienzan is limited in its cutting potential against people of a higher battle power, this gives it a minimum capacity to slice through foes 13.3x Krillin's battle power.

Interestingly, a larger gulf existed between Krillin and Vegeta as the Oozaru. If we take Vegeta dodging it as a tacit admission that it could, in fact, have harmed him, then we get Krillin at 1,770 being capable of slicing through Vegeta at 180,000: a factor of 101.7x.

Now I believe there was something going around before about Vegeta not being at the full 180,000 due to the false moon or something like that? I don't recall, but assuming a mitigating factor, the minimum power we can assume for Vegeta is when Goku states that even a Kaioken x5 would be hopeless against him.

This puts Oozaru Vegeta's minimum battle power at 40,000, a factor of 22.6x for the Kienzan.

Given this, it is a remarkably potent technique - if it can land, and that's the tricky part. During the battle with the Ginyu Force, Krillin had a battle power of 13,000. Captain Ginyu was at 120,000, a difference of 9.2x. Even ignoring its capabilities against Vegeta, the Kienzan without question would have been capable of killing every single member of the Ginyu Force.

Again, if it could land. It is, however, not clear if it could have killed Frieza in his Final Form. Even if we're generous enough to assume Vegeta as an Oozaru was at full power, that only gives Krillin enough of a multiplier to take out a battle power of 7.6 million, and Frieza was far beyond that. We have no physical evidence of any greater feat by the thing.

edited 29th Oct '16 10:25:03 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20930: Oct 29th 2016 at 2:54:38 PM

Again, if it could land. It is, however, not clear if it could have killed Frieza in his Final Form.

You mean, if it could cut Frieza in his final form. Whether it could cut him and whether it could kill him isn't necessarily the same thing.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20931: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:03:30 PM

We already know it wouldn't kill him.

Remember that Frieza can survive being cut into piece. He can survive anything.

In fact, Tobias himself (who the quote is from) pointed out that if Krillin had hit Frieza with the disk when he was in his second from, he'd still have been able to kill him and the others afterwards.

So yeah, the cutting question is more relevant with Frieza.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20932: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:13:41 PM

I mean, I like to think it would kill Frieza eventually. For whatever that's worth.

And, like, when Frieza got cut, he was basically helpless until Goku gave him some energy to borrow. So. Maybe being cut makes his energy bleed out?

edited 29th Oct '16 3:14:34 PM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20933: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:16:46 PM

Frieza was already bleeding energy and heavily beaten at that point. And considering how he was just floating without a care after Goku gave him the energy, I have to believe that even if Krillin managed to cut him in half, he would just consider it an annoyance.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20934: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:29:55 PM

@Tobias - One thing to note, Saiyan's tails are notoriously fragile. Yajirobe cut cleanly through it, despite later causing a smaller cut on Vegeta's back. Vegeta was at least ten times weaker due to losing Oozaru, but probably even more than that due to being hit with the Genki Dama.

Then we've got Puar being able to cut through Oozaru Goku's tail, despite regular Goku not being cut by an axe to the head (I don't think the tail-grabbing lowers physical durability, either) and it snapped off really easily when Gohan was tossing him around.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#20935: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:42:41 PM

Couldn't you just train it to get stronger, like any other muscle on the body?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#20936: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:46:08 PM

There's no point, they always have it wrapped around the waist...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20937: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:48:42 PM

[up][up] You can do that to get around the grabbing weakness, but some parts of your body will always be more vulnerable than others.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20938: Oct 29th 2016 at 3:52:17 PM

Saiyans can train it, which eliminates its role as an Achilles' Heel. Piccolo discovers this the hard way when he tries to grab Nappa's tail.

[nja]

edited 29th Oct '16 3:52:29 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#20939: Oct 29th 2016 at 5:44:05 PM

Doesn't the Kienzan work because you concentrate more ki into a certain point than the point it's cutting through? The Kienzan has to contain more ki than the single point it's cutting through, regardless of the opponent's power level.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#20940: Oct 30th 2016 at 7:10:27 AM

Wouldn't decapitation be better with the Kienzan? tongue

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#20941: Oct 30th 2016 at 7:39:18 AM

There is a reason weapons training involves shooting at the center of mass: Headshots are easy to miss, while bodyshots can have similar effects and be more consistent.

That's why I have always found laughable those who complain about people killing by bodyshots as a sniper class in shooters.

Still, think of Freeza's durability as pretty much Cell's, but without regeneration.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#20942: Oct 30th 2016 at 10:40:22 AM

Also the body tends to keep going after a headshot, body shots are where the most stopping power is.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20943: Oct 30th 2016 at 12:29:55 PM

So the Abridged writers said they were going to cut out a character from the Buu saga.

Who do you think it's going to be?

Maybe they don't plan on bringing Dende back? Maybe Goten being erased in Super Android 13 is going to be carried over?

Maybe Yamcha just hangs himself after the arc is over just like in the future.sad

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20944: Oct 30th 2016 at 12:34:13 PM

I think it's assumed Mr. Popo so that they won't have to deal with Buu eating him and continue the Popo jokes.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#20945: Oct 30th 2016 at 12:48:09 PM

Yeah probably Popo, they wrote themselves into a corner with that one. They really can't cut out Goten without cutting Gotenks which would suck. No more Little Green jokes would suck.

edited 30th Oct '16 12:49:17 PM by Memers

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20946: Oct 30th 2016 at 12:58:14 PM

[up]I gotta disagree on that last bit, but yeah, Popo's gotta go.

Can't say I'll miss him, though. Plenty of stuff to make fun of on the Buu arc.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#20947: Oct 30th 2016 at 1:00:25 PM

Ugh, three people who don't like Popo jokes, this is a f'cking conspiracy.

I still suggest they simply explain it by having Buu still be "infantile" after eating Good Buu, and only become "Evil Buu" after eating Mr. Popo. Considering all of the other crazy stuff Buu does doing that arc it wouldn't be hard to write him as being the bigger fish to Popo.

But let me get this straight.

Little Green wasn't overplayed, but Popo was?

edited 30th Oct '16 1:01:18 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#20948: Oct 30th 2016 at 1:06:55 PM

Popo hasn't been overplayed yet IMO, not used often enough, it's just it's not easy to write around the fact that he loses so badly vs Buu.

I fully expect the Popo vs Goten and Trunks scene to be in though, one of only 2 anime canon times he got to be badass it would be a shame to not use that as fuel.

edited 30th Oct '16 1:14:55 PM by Memers

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20949: Oct 30th 2016 at 1:10:44 PM

That scene wasn't canon, in fact, it's thiught that the ridiculousness of it is the root of the Popo jokes.


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