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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#20876: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:40:26 AM

Stop remembering how the story happened Saiga you are ruining this attempt to salvage Krillin's pride.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20877: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:42:39 AM

[up][up] Also much bigger than the tools they have to work with.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20878: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:44:31 AM

[up]How so, didn't the Kienzan slice through a mountainish thing, much wider than itself when it missed Nappa?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20879: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:45:57 AM

Yeah, but mountains are really fragile compared to the characters. Vegeta's still much wider than that mountain anyway.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20880: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:47:15 AM

Was he? And anyway, it's supposed to "cut throw anything" right. I feel like you've stressed that point before, but I guess not.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20881: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:50:55 AM

Well, no. The Kienzan is never described that way. Freeza does say his version will cut through anything, but at the time he is saying that the strongest thing he knew was his own body.

The only thing we can prove is it can cut beings much stronger than its user. What upper limit it has in strength, how it handles objects much larger than itself, or how far it can travel through matter, etc we have no idea.

And it would be a fallacy to assume it can cut anything just because we haven't seen it fail.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20882: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:52:00 AM

Hm, I thought that was confirmed in one of those databooks or something. My mistake then.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#20883: Oct 28th 2016 at 11:25:32 AM

....Wait. What? When did that happen?

In Super Android 13, there's a point where Goku's charging the Genki-Dama and Vegeta fires a shot at Super 13, who is positioned between him and Goku. TFS edited it so the missed shot nails Goku in the side, complete with an "Ow!" from him.

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#20884: Oct 28th 2016 at 11:39:22 AM

And it would be a fallacy to assume it can cut anything just because we haven't seen it fail.

Nah, if we've got a superpower that cuts whatever with no trouble, and is never shown to fail, it's reasonable to assume it can't fail. Unless you want to consider its use on Cell as your personal canon, which is totally fair.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20885: Oct 28th 2016 at 12:26:31 PM

In Super Android 13, there's a point where Goku's charging the Genki-Dama and Vegeta fires a shot at Super 13, who is positioned between him and Goku. TFS edited it so the missed shot nails Goku in the side, complete with an "Ow!" from him.

Oh yeah. I remember that now. Didn't realize they edited it to do that. Could have sworn that happened in the original. It's just such a Vegeta thing to do for him to blast Goku while trying to save him trying to be the only one who ever kills him.

As for the Kienzan, I'd assume since (barring an anime filler scene of Cell, who would have regenerated anyway) all the dudes it's been used on had to dodge it (even if that's a grand total of three dudes in Nappa, Vegeta and Frieza) were much stronger than him that it can cut through anything, but since we rarely see it hit anyone (and as such have never encountered anyone who could block it), it's fair to assume that we don't know if it's unblockable.

Maybe if Toriyama had allowed it to actually hit someone stronger then Krillin, but since that's never gonna happen, we can't be sure if it's unblock able or not.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#20886: Oct 28th 2016 at 1:12:06 PM

It's hit people stronger than Krillin. Just never decisively. It sliced open Nappa's cheek and severed the tip of Frieza's tail. Both were immensely stronger than Krillin at the time.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#20887: Oct 28th 2016 at 1:19:21 PM

I've heard that Dragon Ball Super is wrapping up its most recent story arc. Is it close to finishing? How many episodes is the show going to be when it's done? Or do we even know?

edited 28th Oct '16 1:19:35 PM by WillKeaton

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#20888: Oct 28th 2016 at 1:32:44 PM

Maybe one or two episodes left with Trunks, Black, and Zamasu. The next arc is likely to be the Multiverse Tournament, though that's unconfirmed.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20889: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:03:39 PM

So if someone switches bodies with Goku, like Ginyu or Goku Black doesn't that mean that they're also using Goku's brain? His scarred and irreparably damaged brain?

Like, sure, the software's transferred over, but not the hardware, right?

edited 28th Oct '16 5:06:05 PM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#20890: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:05:49 PM

THAT'S WHY BLACK IS SO DIFFERENT FROM ZAMASU!

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#20891: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:12:34 PM

MasakoX actually pointed that out in a video he recently did explain why Goku Black is his favorite villain.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20892: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:26:42 PM

Nah, if we've got a superpower that cuts whatever with no trouble, and is never shown to fail, it's reasonable to assume it can't fail. Unless you want to consider its use on Cell as your personal canon, which is totally fair.

That's not logical at all, unless the Mankakosappo can drill through everything, the Final Flash can destroy everything, etc. We've seen that sufficiently powerful attacks can hurt people stronger than them, that's not enough to assume there is not upper limit to it.

Especially because a technique having literally no upper limit just doesn't make sense.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20893: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:36:44 PM

Also, given Goku is only a good person because of childhood traumatic brain injury, why is it that people in his body/brain can be evil? Is it that Ginyu and Goku Black are evil in a different way than Kakarot would have been? Is it because their consciousness/soul/software developed in different hardware to adulthood and transferring to Goku doesn't eliminate their experiences, beliefs and opinions?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20894: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:39:33 PM

I don't think the physical brains are really taken into account for body swaps.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20896: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:42:17 PM

Then Ginyu swapping bodies would result in Goku-Goku and Ginyu-Ginyu

Like, your memories are stored in your brain right? They swap bodies, but keep the physical brains, wouldn't that mean losing all their memories and gaining all the memories of the new body? There'd be no change.

You have to bring in more nebulous concepts like souls and whatnot and start ignoring parts of what our brains actually do

edited 28th Oct '16 5:46:05 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#20897: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:46:53 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if brain chemistry had some effect on body-swapping, but this is Dragon Ball, souls are a thing and contain the personality of that person, it's not an 'all or nothing' thing.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20898: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:46:55 PM

Swapping consciousness would probably change brain patterns, because experience would have taught Ginyu to think in different ways than Goku does, but it wouldn't be able to fix actual damage like that rock Goku took to the head.

edited 28th Oct '16 5:49:11 PM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20899: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:48:15 PM

Are brain patterns not physical? I mean I know that there is a fair bit we don't know about neuroscience but I had thought they were

[up] Yeah, but isn't that experience physically stored in your brain? So that would stay put. I think.

edited 28th Oct '16 5:48:42 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20900: Oct 28th 2016 at 5:50:44 PM

Like, your memories are stored in your brain right? They swap bodies, but keep the physical brains, wouldn't that mean losing all their memories and gaining all the memories of the new body? There'd be no change.

I mean. Kinda. Neuroplasticity involves the way that the formation of memories alters brain pathways. So it could be that swapping minds or whatever involves one person instantly having the brain rewritten to get all of the memories of one, while the other gets the other memories and junk.

Are brain patterns not physical? I mean I know that there is a fair bit we don't know about neuroscience but I had thought they were

They are, but they're also a thing that sorta changes.

Like. The brain is sorta wired, all the neurons are sorta like circuits. Whenever we think, or form a memory, or recall a memory, our brain disconnects some pathways and reconnects others. And it does so very quickly. The brain isn't static.

But things get trickier when there's actual damage involved. It's why amnesia happens because of head trauma sometimes.

edited 28th Oct '16 5:51:39 PM by unnoun


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