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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20851: Oct 27th 2016 at 9:19:33 AM

[up][up]

That's because when 18 did it, it wasn't against anyone important.

If she'd been fighting the main villain or something, it would have failed in some way just as easily.

Don't forget that the attacks failure is as much on plot convenience as it is on anything else.

If Vegeta hadn't yelled out his warning, it would have hit Nappa.

Vegeta again knew the attack was coming (in the dub he claimed he heard it, but I don't know how the original version states it).

In both cases, the attack failed to up the tension and show that they needed something else....though I think it was kinda bullshit that Vegeta knew about Krillin but totally missed Yajirobe, but I chalk that up to Toriyama's do what's unexpected style. I bet if he hadn't foreshadowed Krillin being there, he could have taken Yajirobe's place.

It managed to cut Frieza's tail (the only damage they ever managed to inflict on him, even if it did nothing in the long run) but that's because since Frieza can survive anything it didn't matter.

18, on the other hand, was fighting in a meaningless tournament with no real stakes. So of course that's when it's successful.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20852: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:16:09 AM

Has anyone ever been adversely affected by Vegeta's ki spam?

Zarbon. It weakened him in his monster form enough for Vegeta to finish him off.

Is it fatal if they survive it

and also a planet blowing up afterwards

I mean, "survive" is a relative term. It definitely ended the fight. And Frieza wasn't really able to. Y'know. Do much. Until his daddy pieced him back together. I don't think he was even conscious. And then after that when Sorbet used magical science on him.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#20853: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:21:24 AM

Ending a fight doesn't really make it fatal, though.

Like, when Kame-sennin as Jackie Chun landed the kick that knocked Goku out and won the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, I wouldn't call that kick a fatal blow.

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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#20855: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:40:12 AM

[up][up][up] Does that really count if Vegeta had the fight in the bag from the word go?

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20856: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:40:31 AM

[up][up][up] Didn't put him in a coma he needed medical assistance to get out of either though.

Like, I'm not sure how conscious Frieza was when he came back during Resurrection F as a bunch of cubes but it didn't seem to be very much or for very long. He needed a healing pod to wake up.

I dunno how Frieza's anatomy works exactly, but we do see him drink wine, so I'm guessing he has some form of digestion. Even if it's weird and somehow every cell of him can function as a stomach or whatever, he needs to be able to get to food. if he's drained of energy and crippled he can't reach anything.

edited 27th Oct '16 10:45:20 AM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20857: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:41:13 AM

[up][up]Zarbon was still stronger than Vegeta at that point, so yes.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#20858: Oct 27th 2016 at 10:54:39 AM

Sorbet and Tagoma also needed to put Frieza's pieces in a cryo preservation unit when they were transferring him to their ship and the regeneration pod..

So like. He was alive, but there's no indication he could have stayed like that indefinitely.

Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#20859: Oct 27th 2016 at 3:42:23 PM

to Handsome Rob

Vegeta dodged Krillins attack because he knew Gohan wouldnt show up by himself and was already expecting an ambush

he had no clue Yajirobe was even around

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#20860: Oct 27th 2016 at 3:54:59 PM

Frieza tried to put himself back together as a pile of chunks, so he at least had some self-preservation instinct.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20861: Oct 27th 2016 at 4:39:00 PM

[up][up] Oh yeah. That.

Why did Gohan jump out like that again? They would have succeeded if Vegeta had never known anyone else was there in the first place.

I think it's because Vegeta was crushing Goku at the time, but I can't fully recall.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#20862: Oct 27th 2016 at 5:03:32 PM

It was suppose to be a distraction...but it doesn't work since he already didn't know they came back.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20863: Oct 27th 2016 at 5:32:43 PM

Yeah.

Thats was really dumb.

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Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#20864: Oct 28th 2016 at 2:09:06 AM

to be fair, Vegeta did hear someone getting close to him

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20865: Oct 28th 2016 at 2:10:44 AM

It wasn't dumb. Vegeta was just thinking ahead of them.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#20866: Oct 28th 2016 at 2:40:10 AM

He most likely meant Gohand being the distraction...

If he didn't do that, suspicion wouldn't have been raised and Krillin could've cut some tail.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20867: Oct 28th 2016 at 6:38:35 AM

Not really. It's sound logic, to think that if he's focused on Gohan he is definitely distracted rather than hoping he is engrossed enough in his totally helpless opponent to not pay attention to his surroundings.

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#20868: Oct 28th 2016 at 8:34:56 AM

I can see where it was a bad idea. Knowing Vegeta like we do, indulging his sadism against a defeated foe is more likely to keep him distracted than the sudden arrival of a foe he knows has no shot at beating him, which gave him that moment of, "Why does that idiot think he can win? Wait, it this a trap?"

Gohan made him suspicious, where he was previously drowning in ego. Once both Krillin and Gohan were clearly identified, he resumed drowning in ego, which made him vulnerable to Yajirobe. Had Gohan never revealed himself and just let Vegeta bask in his own awesomeness unimpeded, it's entirely possible that Krillin might have accomplished what Yajirobe ultimately did.

Vegeta's greatest strength is his experience and intellect, but his greatest weakness is his pride. However, I can see where Gohan and Krillin wouldn't think of that, because they didn't really know him that well at the time. Getting his attention so he'll stop crushing Goku for a moment and focus on Gohan was a bad call, but also the best call given their information at the time.

edited 28th Oct '16 8:36:54 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20869: Oct 28th 2016 at 9:23:53 AM

Fair enough.

It might have been better to have Gohan launch an attack, even a small one.

Whether he got lucky and hit the other eye, or did nothing, Vegeta would have been better distracted since he was just attacked, and if Krillin attacked immediately after that, he might have pulled it off.

As it is, the Kienzan is another in the long list of attacks that accomplish nothing, though at least it was never hyped up like the Spirit bomb, which took until the very end of the series to work, and only because the heroes made the worst possible choice on how to win.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#20870: Oct 28th 2016 at 9:32:05 AM

See, now I'm just picturing Gohan throwing a ki blast and Vegeta going "LOL" and blocking it with Goku.

Which would be hilarious AND keep him distracted for the Kienzan.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20871: Oct 28th 2016 at 9:54:56 AM

Right, that is hilarious, but I know you get me real point.

Trying to think of a way for Gohan to do what I suggested without Vegeta pulling the stunt Tobias mentioned. He'd probably have to attack really fast to be honest, or maybe from a blind spot.

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#20872: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:26:44 AM

Well, blocking with Goku wouldn't really change whether he's distracted for Krillin's kienzan. If Gohan's blast is a distraction, it doesn't matter if it lands or not. Hitting Goku might actually be better in the long run, As I noted, what made Vegeta vulnerable before Gohan arrived and after Krillin failed was his pride. He was drunk on his own sense of self-awesomeness.

Feeding him a weak shot and letting him use Goku as a shield could allow Gohan to distract him while still letting him be high on "Yeah, I'm so great, just used Kakarot's face to block an attack, that was HILARIOUS. I'm awesome."

Either way, it's the kind of gag TFS might have done if their early day writing was up to today's standards, similar to having Vegeta's missed shot come around and smack Goku in the side during the Android 13 movie.

edited 28th Oct '16 10:28:41 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20873: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:34:58 AM

Either way, it's the kind of gag TFS might have done if their early day writing was up to today's standards

This is true.

similar to having Vegeta's missed shot come around and smack Goku in the side during the Android 13 movie.

....Wait. What? When did that happen?

edited 28th Oct '16 10:35:13 AM by HandsomeRob

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#20874: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:37:35 AM

I can see where it was a bad idea. Knowing Vegeta like we do, indulging his sadism against a defeated foe is more likely to keep him distracted than the sudden arrival of a foe he knows has no shot at beating him, which gave him that moment of, "Why does that idiot think he can win? Wait, it this a trap?"

Gohan made him suspicious, where he was previously drowning in ego. Once both Krillin and Gohan were clearly identified, he resumed drowning in ego, which made him vulnerable to Yajirobe. Had Gohan never revealed himself and just let Vegeta bask in his own awesomeness unimpeded, it's entirely possible that Krillin might have accomplished what Yajirobe ultimately did.

All of this is completely contradicted by the fact that Vegeta, while fully committed to torturing Goku, noticed someone was there. This was before Gohan revealed himself - in fact, when he first notices, he turns toward where Kuririn is before Gohan deliberately grabs his attention.

So no, Vegeta wasn't drunk on his pride or vulnerable. He was totally going to bust Kuririn, and Gohan distracted him but not enough for Vegeta to see through it.

edited 28th Oct '16 10:37:58 AM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#20875: Oct 28th 2016 at 10:39:50 AM

I'm surprised no one has brought up how it's a bit stupid to aim specifically for Vegeta's tail instead of just taking the opportunity to just try and cut him in half. His torso's a much bigger target.


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