That was me posting this link to a fanmade timeline hypothesizing when each film could have happened.
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edited 7th Sep '16 11:02:41 AM by VeryMelon
I'd like to point out that there was no way in hell Goku could have ever beaten Frieza without both Super Saiyan and that final Zenkai; if it was just Early Namek Goku vs Frieza, then Goku would need a Kaio-ken x6 in order to beat Frieza at his weakest, and Kaio-ken x10 would still be weaker than Frieza's second restriction state. Even if Goku went Kaio-ken x20, which he probably couldn't even do at that point, Frieza would probably still be ahead of him once he transformed again.
edited 7th Sep '16 11:09:23 AM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!- Frieza: Alrighty then, Final Form it is!
- Krillin: Personally, I was a bigger fan of the First Form.
- Piccolo: I'd settle for Second, really.
- ~Episode 26, Alien v. Piccolo
Actually, no. Frieza can't sense battle power, so in a hypothetical world where post-zenkai Goku met Frieza at First Form and wasn't willing to f*ck around, Goku could have easily killed him before Frieza had a chance to realize how outmatched he is in this state and transform.
Which would be out of character for Goku, but Cooler doesn't really know him that well.
The "Tori" means bird, and Toriyama once referenced it with the studio name "Tori Studio" or "Bird Studio".
edited 7th Sep '16 11:41:17 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.He didn't kill them, that's the point.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.And Cooler didn't know Goku well enough to know Goku wouldn't kill someone he blindsided.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Plus he hates his little brother, so of course he would assume he got killed because he was stupid.
You tend to undersell people you hate.
One Strip! One Strip!That only matters if you're trying to make the line more complicated to make the movie fit somewhere it very openly does not try to fit.
The fact that Cooler doesn't know what happened on Namek doesn't mean it starts making sense for him to throw out claims like Goku could beat Freeza if it requires a specific set of circumstances to achieve. Saying he must have assumed Freeza would use a weaker form or that he undersold Freeza because he hates him are massively overthinking it, and also make his statement meaningless.
There is a very simple narrative reason he said that line. To establish Goku as stronger than Freeza, so that his own transformation can prove how much better it is by beating up a guy who can beat up Freeza.
To try and make things fit the manga, you're reducing Cooler's statement to something that has no meaning in-universe and out of universe.
As for Freeza getting killed because he'd stay in a suppressed form, that's incredibly unlikely. It goes completely against how he actually acts in the story:
- When facing down Gohan, Kuririn and Vegeta, he was the strongest there but transformed anyway
- When fighting Piccolo, he was able to raise his battle power higher than Piccolo's, then transformed anyway (Piccolo may have surpassed him by taking off the weights - we don't know, because Freeza didn't even chance it)
- In his third form, he transformed despite the only near challenge to him being an attack from Gohan that he reflected
- He powered up to 50% against Goku despite that being massive overkill against him
Freeza was always really quick to transform or pull more power out of his ass, saying it's likely he'd get killed in a lower form is misunderstanding his character if not inventing things whole cloth.
edit: It's like trying to explain how base Gohan can fight Super Saiyan Broly, or why the base Saiyans fight the Androids for so long in Super Android 13. Toei's writers write differently from Toriyama.
edited 8th Sep '16 4:56:34 AM by Saiga
It went very far past covering bases and far into over thinking. This started out as simply tossing ideas in regards to cooler compared to frezia.
No one claimed their thoughts were canon. It was simply an idea of hey maybe cooler thinks frezia died before going 100 percent.
Cooler movies obviously don't fit in the narrative of the manga or anime that is very clear to almost every one here. Does not change that fact that people like to talk about where it could fit with the least amount of inconvenience to the plot .
"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - DorthyWhat gives off that idea?
There is caps lock or language to suggest that I am being overly serious. You can't exactly read tone from typed words.
My point simply was cooler has no idea of exact details of what happened on namek and cab draw his own conclusions of what did or did not happen.
Nothing more nothing less.
"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy

I still wonder to this day if Toei did this intentionally as a reference
. I need to look up when the Cooler film came out because the symbolism here is too real.
Still probably the best Super Saiyan transformation in the franchise.
edited 7th Sep '16 10:59:21 AM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!