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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#19626: Jul 23rd 2016 at 12:15:34 PM

Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19627: Jul 23rd 2016 at 12:35:02 PM

Especially when that power was given to you by an asshole who changed you against your will.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#19628: Jul 23rd 2016 at 1:54:45 PM

Cell believes that Dr. Gero wanted him to destroy the universe. This is only his speculation so take it with a grain of salt.

But Gero did aim his vengeance indiscriminately. He didn't start by flying to Goku's house and punching his skull in, he started by blowing up a random city that had nothing to do with him.

I don't think he cared overmuch about the risk of his creations destroying the Earth on a whim. I mean, logically, he should consider that a drawback, but Gero's character has basically been rendered into gibberish due to the repeated changes to the arc.

He wanted them controllable because he didn't want them to dropkick his skull off his shoulders and then humiliatingly crush it in front of all his enemies. In that regard, scrapping 17 and 18's designs makes some degree of sense.

Why he never went back to 16's model, on the other hand, is a mystery for the ages.

edited 23rd Jul '16 1:58:11 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#19629: Jul 23rd 2016 at 1:57:44 PM

Personally I think it's actually better if you don't think of it as poor planning or character motivation writing flub ups and instead think that maybe Dr. Gero was really just dumb.

Oh really when?
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#19630: Jul 23rd 2016 at 2:20:54 PM

I wish we'd have gotten to see Cell actually meet Gero in hell. I mean, him paling around with Freeza is okay, but meeting his father would have been better.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#19631: Jul 23rd 2016 at 4:56:52 PM

There are different kinds of smarts. You can be smart one way and not so smart in others. Gero clearly lacked in tactical acumen and quite possibly fell into a trap of taking every new discovery of his and running with it without actually thinking about if he should.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#19632: Jul 23rd 2016 at 5:25:51 PM

The doctor could have lost his marbles sometime after he removed his brain and placed it on a robot.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#19634: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:14:35 PM

How did Gero place his brain in a robot?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19635: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:18:49 PM

We've been trying to figure that out for years.

Best bet is he either built a machine to do it, or had 19 do it after he created him.

Gero's machines would have been good for creating a new Earth army. Just make them all like 16 (powerful, without any rebellious streak, and incapable of getting tired).

Cell and 16 are the only ones who wanted to follow their programming (well, 17 and 18 were only doing it for fun, but I guess they technically were still doing it as well).

....Oh man. I'm really looking forward to how Team Four Star handles the meeting between Goku and 16. He's more obsessed then the canon version, so I can't wait to see how he takes it.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19636: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:23:56 PM

I think he probably lost his marbles before putting his brain in a robot.

That doesn't seem like a thing a sane mind would do when his only potential lab assistant was 19.

There's an alarming amount of trust there in 19's competence, loyalty and obedience that I'm not entirely sure was actually borne out.

Also, he was with the Red Ribbon Army. Wanton slaughter seems like something he'd be fine with.

edited 23rd Jul '16 6:29:17 PM by unnoun

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#19637: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:27:08 PM

So Androids don't need to breath, right? So if the Earth did end up blowing up it would suck because that's where he keeps all his stuff, but he'd be able to eventually make his way to another planet, right?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19638: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:28:10 PM

I imagine his brain probably needs oxygen to live? Possibly? Not getting oxygen to the brain tends to kill people. It's why choking and drowning are bad.

Not entirely sure how he was getting oxygen to the brain in the first place though. Like, it seemed to just be in a glass jar.

edited 23rd Jul '16 6:30:29 PM by unnoun

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#19639: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:31:08 PM

I honestly don't really care how Gero did it. It's clear he did it through automation.

I just like referencing the joke about how he did it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19640: Jul 23rd 2016 at 6:44:47 PM

T'is a funny joke. I'll admit that much.

Bulma really should have looted his lab first before Krillin and Trunks destroyed it.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19641: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:02:45 PM

Remember that Dr Gero worked for the Red Ribbon Army before he became obsessed with Goku.

So attacking those cities was either a way to flush Goku out (no reason to assume he knows where Goku lives) or him continuing the RRA's plan for world domination.

The idea of growing the Senzu in the ROSAT is interesting but there are many logistical factors that would explain why it was never attempted.

The increased gravity and extreme temperature shifts applies to the entire space in the manga. It's not safe on the platform, and the temperature can shift from -40 to 50 degrees celsius at any point in the room. It also has 1/4 of the Oxygen as Earth, despite being the same area.

They're just terrible conditions for agriculture, and while Bulma or Brief could maybe find ways around it neither of them have ever dealt with Senzu/ROSAT or shown an interest in that kind of humanitarian work.

Given the lesson Karin wanted to impart from the Super Divine Water, I don't think he'd be fond of distributing something as sacred as the Senzu so freely either.

Growing them down on Earth is actually done in Dragon Ball Online, and it's something Yajirobe decides to do as the threat of the Time Breakers and widespread adoption of martial arts causes a shift in the state of the Earth. Presumably it's done because they simply need more Senzu to support the dramatically increased population of warriors on Earth.

Edit: 16 totally has a rebellious streak: he's a good guy who does not like people who kill unjustly. For a creator who is all about unjust killings, that is a significant design flaw.

Edit 2: Edit Harder - Cell claiming that Gero's plan was to destroy Earth/the universe/etc is not from the manga anyway. It's just an anime/dub line. Even those adaptations make it clear he's just wildly guessing and it's just a loose justification for what he wants to do.

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:17:47 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#19642: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:06:45 PM

He had to have known where Goku lived. Android 16 had that information programmed into him.

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:07:04 PM by LSBK

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#19643: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:08:08 PM

Maybe destroying that city was just a field test? I mean that makes the most sense. Gero probably didn't want to go into battle against Goku and then realize that something important doesn't work. Also, the model that Gero chose for himself and 19 were energy sucking, so maybe he planned to "Cell it up" and drain energy from people until he was sure he had enough to destroy Goku.

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:09:41 PM by WillKeaton

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19644: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:18:11 PM

[up][up]What 16 says in the manga implies that they just know the general area (unless Toriyama had 16 phrase it like that to avoid coming up with a specific address). Which admittedly, it would still be more efficient for Gero to attack villages in that area if he was just trying to pinpoint Goku's exact location.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19645: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:22:23 PM

Something I always found interesting is that the Androids attacked the same city in both timelines. Maybe it's not important, but so much other stuff changed, up to and including the Androids that did the attack, it seems a bit odd that the time and place of the attack was identical.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#19646: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:30:56 PM

Is it possible that, even in Trunks' timeline, it was 19 and 20 that attacked the city, then things played out similarly to the way things went down, with those two Androids losing to the Z fighters, Gero retreating to his base, activating 17 and 18, then immediately getting killed by them, and THEN 17 and 18 killing everyone? If we assume niether Gohan nor Bulma were present for any of this, then what would Trunks have known? Would Trunks even have known there was an Android 19 and 20?

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:31:04 PM by WillKeaton

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19647: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:47:50 PM

[up][up] I came up with a theory that the only thing time travel messes with is the exact timing of events (eg Goku contracts the heart virus in both timelines, but at different times) and that the initial attack is something Gero planned in advance. In the future timeline, he completes 17 and 18 to his liking but still gets killed and they attack, in the present he doesn't get that far and attacks the city himself. Part of this is derived from present Gero mentioning that he had intended to work on 17 and 18 more before he's forced to release them, and explaining why the present twins aren't as heartless.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19648: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:47:54 PM

[up][up]Well, the latest episode canonized the History of Trunks special, and that showed and talked about everyone dying to 17 and 18 in that city.

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:49:34 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19649: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:49:48 PM

[up][up][up]

That makes sense.

I also agree with the testing phase idea for blowing up the cities. If Gero had even a vague idea of where Goku lived (and he should have more then that if he had surveillance bugs following Goku since the 22nd Budokai) then it's really weird he flew out to West City or wherever it is unless he was still working out the bugs of his new body.

Or he just really hated that city. Who knows.

[up][up]

Oh. I like that. It works. Maybe the fact that Goku arrived on Earth later than in the original timeline (if we assume that he used Instant Transmission in the world where Trunks never showed up to fight Frieza) cause everything to start happening a little later than in that original timeline.

Basically, Trunks accidentally moved the arms on the clock a little, and everything is happening later or earlier than it's supposed to.

edited 23rd Jul '16 7:52:56 PM by HandsomeRob

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19650: Jul 23rd 2016 at 7:58:00 PM

Not everyone subscribes to your personal interpretation of canon.

[up][up][up][up] that said, it is implied that Gohan was present for the original attack so he should probably know which Androids were involved.

Also Trunks originally said 19 and 20 attacked when he first talked to Goku (due to Toriyama currently planning them to be the true Androids) and later he knows 17 and 18's proper numbers when he returns to the present timetable, so that makes interpreting it a lot fuzzier. It is possible that 19 and 20 were the Androids that attacked, Trunks was told of this, but still didn't know the difference between them and the later Androids. Then during one of the skirmishes between 17 and 18 after his first time travel trip, he learns their numbers and just dismisses 19 and 20 as a mistake or something.

Edit: another point to support the test run, both19 and 20 seems to be examining their own hand movements after killing people. They do look like they're seeing what they can do.

edited 23rd Jul '16 8:01:46 PM by Saiga


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