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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#19526: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:12:21 AM

If memory serves, the average BP of a soldier in the PTO is 2,000. Raditz was 1,200. That's well below the average. As such, either the might Saiyan race was actually shit or Raditz was shit.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#19527: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:13:32 AM

Vegeta fucking grew half a dozen cabbages as strong as Raditz on a whim.

Oh really when?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19528: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:13:43 AM

Nappa was a Saiyan elite at only 4000.

[up] In fairness, I thought they did say that Earth's soil was unusually good and made unusually strong Saibamen.

edited 11th Jun '16 9:16:19 AM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#19529: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:15:08 AM

Most of the PTO weren't Saiyans and making fun of Saiyans seem to be a favorite past time. And the Saibamen were not as strong as Raditz, their power levels were 1,200 and his was 1,500.

If I recall, it as said somewhere that the average Saiyan power level was actually around 850 or 900, but I don't remember where.

edited 11th Jun '16 9:16:14 AM by LSBK

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19530: Jun 11th 2016 at 9:18:33 AM

What's most impressive about the Saiyans is their great ape transformation, and their zenkai. They aren't all that strong naturally.

What Frieza was most scared of was the Saiyans all over the place getting stronger through fighting and eventually banding together.

Our Vegeta supposedly surpassed his dad as a kid. Got to like. 10001 before Vegeta (the king and the planet) blew up.

I imagine between then and the Saiyan Saga he almost died a bunch.

Keep in mind that as a Great Ape, Vegeta could have crushed Ginyu. Figuratively and literally.

So that transformation isn't something to sneeze at.

edited 11th Jun '16 9:25:08 AM by unnoun

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#19531: Jun 11th 2016 at 10:14:43 AM

Before retcon: Frieza was scared of all saiyans making a rebelion, like Dragon Ball Multiverse fully shows. Or the Super saiyan, "the legend that you fear", I don't fully remember.

After retcon: Beerus told him to, and he was scared of the Super saiyan god.

edited 11th Jun '16 10:17:56 AM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#19533: Jun 11th 2016 at 4:40:31 PM

You already posted that first one, but whatever...un-reverb.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#19534: Jun 11th 2016 at 5:54:42 PM

In the original Dragonball Z, do Android 16 and Goku interact at all? Because I've been waiting for that conversation ever since Goku stepped into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

edited 11th Jun '16 5:54:59 PM by JBC31187

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#19535: Jun 11th 2016 at 5:59:37 PM

They never interact until the Cell games...for just one line of verbalogue each.

edited 11th Jun '16 5:59:58 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#19536: Jun 11th 2016 at 6:02:12 PM

Aww, I was hoping to see Android 16 get his shot at Goku... and then realize just how fucked he would be.

edited 11th Jun '16 6:02:43 PM by JBC31187

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19537: Jun 12th 2016 at 12:09:58 AM

Goku says hi, 16 reminds him that he was created to kill him, and Goku calls him a buzzkill.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#19538: Jun 12th 2016 at 9:51:29 AM

There's nothing stopping TFS from adding dialogue and content to that scene if they want to.

edited 12th Jun '16 9:51:39 AM by KnownUnknown

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#19539: Jun 12th 2016 at 4:25:06 PM

Not as good as the vocal mix but pretty cool.

edited 12th Jun '16 4:26:19 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19540: Jun 13th 2016 at 6:51:14 AM

Vegeta's 18,000 was from his own inherent specialness without needing any special power-ups or training. A Goku who never gets any special power-ups or training would get steamrolled.

Goku being more talented than Vegeta does not contradict the notion that Vegeta's super-special genes made him naturally stronger than Goku when they met. Vegeta's special the way Frieza is: naturally graced with immense power by virtue of birth. Goku isn't.

That notion is not backed up by anything official, though, which is the real issue. For starters, he's not the only one who mentions him fighting on the frontlines: Freeza says the same thing about Vegeta, and even talks as though Vegeta's growth after Earth was normal for him.

Whenever Vegeta talks about his 'specialness', it's in the exact same context that he calls Goku more of a genius to him. There is never a moment in the manga where Vegeta talks about having a naturally higher battle power as a completely separate issue from talent, that's a fabrication.

The fact is, we haven't seen the pre-Saiyan arc portion of Vegeta's life. And because of that, you can't claim that his 18,000 battle power was owed entirely to his genes because there is no basis for it. The manga doesn't claim or even hint at that, and even goes as far as to hint otherwise.

Yeah, but I can't imagine that being particularly relevant when Planet Vegeta is space dust for Goku's entire life. Nappa and Raditz may have benefitted from Planet Vegeta's enhanced gravity, but Goku was sent to Earth just before the planet was destroyed. He's not getting any more mileage out of Planet Vegeta's enhanced gravity than he did otherwise.

That's really missing the point - even though Planet Vegeta would not be an option for him, that doesn't change that Earth is simply a worse environment for a Saiyan to grow up in. It may be a better environment than a hypothetical planet with similar gravity but none of Earth's opportunities that Goku would otherwise be sent to, but that's going too far into speculation. All we have to compare is Planet Vegeta and Earth, and Earth is the worse of the two.

Vegeta also didn't get much mileage out of it, seeing as he's only five years older than Goku. As a veteran of the Saiyan-Tuffle War, 10x gravity certainly explains Nappa's strength. We don't know how old Raditz is so it could be the answer there as well. But, like all attempts at downplaying Vegeta's natural prowess, it just doesn't cut it as an answer. He's too young.

You are in absolutely no position to make such a claim. Exactly how much time does it take for a Saiyan to benefit from enhanced gravity? You don't know. It wasn't made clear.

But less than a year of 10x gravity was enough to make Goku 10 - 20 times stronger. Five years doesn't seem so bad for Vegeta, now.

And it's really not downplaying Vegeta's prowess - you've just attributed a completely different meaning to it.

But this is moving away from the point of the original comparison, which is specifically a hypothetical version of Kakarot with a different history vs Vegeta. It was rather silly to assert that "Goku without Earth" would be no match for Vegeta as though this version would not evolved beyond his upbringing. The fact that Saiyans can get extremely arbitrary power ups through recovering from serious injury just shits on the idea of comparing two people's "starting power".

No, the West loves it too. We just call it the Chosen One instead of the genius prodigy. Both cultures are romantically infatuated with the Divine Right concept.

You really took the opposite point of that. I didn't claim that Japan loves geniuses and the West doesn't, I claimed that the West loves underdogs and Japan doesn't. The West has a mix of divided between Chosen vs Underdog (as well as a sleuth of people who try to have their cake and eat it with both concepts), whereas by and large Japan is full all board the genius train.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#19541: Jul 3rd 2016 at 3:40:14 PM

Have we been told who'll voice Satan in DBZA?

edited 3rd Jul '16 4:06:00 PM by LordofLore

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19542: Jul 3rd 2016 at 3:41:28 PM

Saiga, the Pope of being late to conversations long over.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19543: Jul 3rd 2016 at 3:58:38 PM

DE-POPE HIM!!!!!

Ok, I admit that's my answer to everything, but I just wanted to be noticed.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19544: Jul 3rd 2016 at 4:04:42 PM

Seriously, I feel like I've read some of that post before.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#19545: Jul 3rd 2016 at 4:06:31 PM

You did. It's two weeks old at this point. No one posts here.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#19546: Jul 3rd 2016 at 4:07:37 PM

Correction: no one posts her unless and episode is imminent or out.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#19547: Jul 3rd 2016 at 4:10:56 PM

No, I mean, I feel like Saiga has responded to those comments before, with the exact same response. I remember that 'people in the West want to have their cake and eat it too in regards to hard work vs chosen one genius' line before, word for word.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#19548: Jul 3rd 2016 at 4:27:54 PM

Damn, the thread actually died for 2 weeks?

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#19549: Jul 3rd 2016 at 6:15:31 PM

Doesn't look like there's been any new reviews lately either.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#19550: Jul 3rd 2016 at 9:03:33 PM

[up][up][up] Not from me, you haven't.

edit: I'm not sure how a next day response is being late or "long over". Unlike you commenting on it three weeks later.

edited 3rd Jul '16 9:05:19 PM by Saiga


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