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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18876: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:33:04 AM

I mean, in Xenoverse they aren't described as Frieza's race or species, but as his clan. As in, like, his family.

If Cold and his kids are mutants, then their descendents would presumably inherit those traits, but not every member of the original species of Cold's parent/parents.

And Chilled wasn't that strong.

edited 16th Mar '16 8:46:45 AM by unnoun

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#18877: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:40:18 AM

Who is Frost, again?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#18879: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:40:56 AM

Universe 6 Freeza

[nja]d

edited 16th Mar '16 8:41:07 AM by AdricDePsycho

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#18880: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:45:20 AM

What's Universe 6?

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#18881: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:45:42 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Maybe Chilled is what a non-mutated member of Frieza's race would be. It's possible that Frieza's power and transformations are part of the mutation?

[up] Alternate universe introduced in Dragon Ball Super.

edited 16th Mar '16 8:46:26 AM by Larkmarn

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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
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#18882: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:47:20 AM

[up][up] Alternate universe where Champa comes from that's introduced in Dragon Ball Super.

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#18883: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:49:35 AM

And before the question is asked: Champa is that universe's God of Destruction, like Beerus.

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18884: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:50:31 AM

I like the idea that Episode of Bardock is Towa and Mira messing with Bardock's head.

Frankly, Dragon Ball Online and Xenoverse give an out for every inconsistency between the movies, anime filler, GT and whatever else you want to think of, because it could just be the guys messing with history screwing everything up for a week.

Towa can explicitly power up Gohan to Super Saiyan 2, so even inconsistency of power levels can be explained that way.

edited 16th Mar '16 8:52:32 AM by unnoun

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Court Dragon
#18885: Mar 16th 2016 at 8:52:08 AM

Xenoverse came SO CLOSE to explaining EOB, and then teleported him to Namek instead.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#18886: Mar 16th 2016 at 9:12:06 AM

Having him get punched out by Broli, was a smarter idea.

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#18887: Mar 16th 2016 at 9:39:10 AM

Maybe Chilled is what a non-mutated member of Frieza's race would be. It's possible that Frieza's power and transformations are part of the mutation?

That would raise more questions than it would solve. Chilled resembles First Form Frieza, but Final Form is his natural state. Another member of Frieza's species without the ability to transform should resemble his Final Form, not his First Form. This was one of many mistakes Xenoverse made.

If Episode of Bardock cared at all about being accurate to the established mechanics of Frieza, then Bardock killed Chilled before he had a chance to transform and show his true power.

Similarly, there is reason to believe that Cold had the ability to transform up to Third and Final Form and just never had the chance to - though, unlike how this point is often used, there is NO reason to believe this implies that he was actually more powerful than Frieza. If anything, that he's comfortable walking around in Second Form would suggest he has less power to suppress, not more.

During Goku's fight with Frost, this actually comes up. Goku knows that Frost is sandbagging because he's in his First Form. Frost cops to it and transforms to Third Form, but Goku still isn't fooled because he knows how Frieza's transformation mechanics work. Called out on his gambit, Frost relents and goes to Final Form, unveiling his real strength.

edited 16th Mar '16 9:41:23 AM by TobiasDrake

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#18888: Mar 16th 2016 at 9:43:12 AM

Being fair to Xenoverse, looking like any of Freeza's forms is up to what armor you equip them with. The Time Patroller's actual power has nothing to do with looks.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18889: Mar 16th 2016 at 9:55:25 AM

Look who's back!

Back again!

Unnoun's back!

Tell your friends!

Sorry. I'm obligated to make that joke about everything whenever something that hasn't been around for a bit returns.

Anyway, I can kinda see the point about not giving Frieza's clan a name. I guess it's just a minor gripe with me. We're never gonna see other members beyond those directly related to Frieza (or alternate counterparts of him) so I suppose it makes sense to not bother with naming them unless they become an issue at some point.

It still irks me. It's not that hard to name something. Plus, I never realized you could have world building just for World buildings sake. I never even considered it could be a bad thing. I mean, how is expanding your universe not good. Bothering to name the race of the most iconic villain of the series (he was brought back years after his death in a movie, so yeah. That's what he is) doesn't seem like it'd be too much of an issue.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18890: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:14:34 AM

I mean, Cold was said to be around Frieza's level, while still being slightly weaker.

So it's possible that he couldn't transform. Because the difference between Frieza's second form and Final Form is fairly significant? And people thought that Cold was another Frieza, so. Like.

Maybe Frieza's Final Form/Original Form/natural state looking the way it does is also a mutation?

And his suppression forms end up making him look like "normal" members of his species because the information for those appearances is still there in his DNA?

Although.

We don't see Frieza transform downwards. Ever. It's always from First to second to third to fourth, or from First to fourth. Presumably he can, but. We never see it.

But I think it's worth noting that the transformations from first to second to third are very different graphically from the transformation to fourth.

First to second, he visibly gets bigger, second to third his head visibly elongates.

Third to Fourth? It's like he just sorta. Shatters. And his Final Form emerges from inside the shards.

edited 16th Mar '16 10:20:48 AM by unnoun

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#18891: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:18:21 AM

He can. Remember that, in Resurrection F, he was revived in his Final Form, but emerges from the healing tank in his First Form.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18892: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:19:12 AM

We still don't see it though! Is my point!

And I think that's weird! Because I kinda wanna see it!

Sorry for not being more clear though.

Resurrection F doesn't show him transform from First to Final either. It sorta shows him powering up until he's surrounded by light and then presumably he transforms while we can't look at him.

I thought that was kinda lame too. I like the visuals for Frieza's transformations. The way he stretches and shifts and stuff is. Gross but cool?

I mean, the Frieza's clan people in Xenoverse can't transform. Which, if we take that at face value. Makes it seem like transformation is a mutation exclusive to Frieza himself.

And, yes, Frost can do it, but Frost is from another universe, and while the same mutation arising independently is extremely unlikely, it is also true that Universe 6 and Universe 7 are specifically said to be the most similar to each other and to parallel each other in certain ways?

edited 16th Mar '16 10:27:30 AM by unnoun

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18894: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:36:16 AM

So, like.

Is Frieza's Final Form just sorta. Inside. His Third form all along?

Like, I don't think it's inside his First Form because (and I could be wrong, I haven't seen a height chart) I'm pretty sure his Final Form is (slightly) bigger than his First Form?

Because, seriously, the way the transformation is animated and drawn is really. Interesting. And unique.

In the transformation from First to Second, his horns actually change shape, his arms and legs and torso actually bulge and grow in size.

Transformation from Second to Third, again, we see the shape of his head change, we see spikes grow from his back, we see his shoulder pads lift and separate.

And the transformation from Third to Fourth is just. Really really interesting in light of that. Because I can't quite explain it. He powers up until he starts to glow. It's like his body is a shell, or becomes a shell, and starts to crack and fracture. And then, when the pieces break and fall off, his Final Form is inside of them as they fall away and disintegrate.

It's a really cool effect.

edited 16th Mar '16 10:37:19 AM by unnoun

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#18895: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:40:11 AM

Small nitpick: it appears that Frost only has three forms: First, Assault, and Final. No form in-between First and Assault.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18896: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:41:00 AM

So the transformations are still different from Frieza's. So it's not exactly the same mutation.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#18897: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:44:00 AM

That doesn't mean Frost lacks a second form, only that he thought going to his third form would be enough to fool Goku.

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#18898: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:48:30 AM

It doesn't indicate there is one either, especially when the announcer talked about Frost and his forms and second wasn't even mentioned.

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#18899: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:52:10 AM

Plus, I never realized you could have world building just for World buildings sake. I never even considered it could be a bad thing. I mean, how is expanding your universe not good.

Because world-building can limit story potential. What you flesh out today might be contradicted by what you want to write tomorrow.

Remember that time Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor? And then later Toriyama wanted to introduce a villain who was responsible for the Saiyan extinction and had to write around the fact that he had already established the planet was destroyed by a meteor? Had Toriyama just said the Saiyans were near-extinction, there wouldn't have been an issue, but he went the extra mile and explained that a meteor killed their planet.

Toei even fleshed this out with some filler world-building. It wasn't just a meteor. It was a meteor summoned by the God of the Saiyans, who had become distressed by their cruelty and malice. Their God summoned the meteor and destroyed them all to punish them for their wickedness.

And then none of that was true because Frieza did it. The existing world-building contradicted the plot, and the plot was forced to work around it. Toriyama did a fantastic job writing around the world-building, while Toei just went "F*ck it" and never even tried.

Toriyama also seems to be trying to distance the Saiyans from their reputation as mindless berserkers of death and violence, but the fanbase is struggling with that because of all the world-building that's been put into place in things like the Bardock special that encourage the idea that Saiyans are Always Chaotic Evil. The world-building has given fans the impression that Vegeta is basically the standard for Saiyans, when the plot actually notes him as being exceptionally cruel for a Saiyan.

Small nitpick: it appears that Frost only has three forms: First, Assault, and Final. No form in-between First and Assault.

Frost only showed us three forms. That doesn't mean he doesn't have Second Form. Goku transforms to Super Saiyan 3 sometimes without stopping at 1 or 2.

edited 16th Mar '16 10:57:10 AM by TobiasDrake

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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#18900: Mar 16th 2016 at 10:56:38 AM

Wasn't Frieza powerful enough compared to the Saiyans to be comparable to a god? And that giant energy attack of his could've been looked like a Meteor.

How would that change things?


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