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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18426: Feb 18th 2016 at 9:21:04 AM

That's a pretty small difference, but your point is made.

Of course, Goku had spent seven years training in other world, while Krillin had not trained at all until just before the tournament, so it that might have played a role as well.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#18427: Feb 18th 2016 at 9:39:57 AM

Yes. Goku's very good at sensing ki.

But that's not what Krillin's doing here. He's identifying that the ki Trunks is using isn't his full power based solely on psychological factors. "I can tell when someone's going all-out and when someone isn't."

That's not the same skill. Ki-sensing has never been used to identify how much ki is being successfully suppressed. If it could do that, it would defeat the entire purpose of suppressing one's ki in the first place.

edited 18th Feb '16 9:40:43 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18429: Feb 18th 2016 at 11:43:13 AM

So you think it's more that Krillin is a good judge of character then rather than being talented at sensing Ki then?

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#18430: Feb 18th 2016 at 11:51:20 AM

Judging whether or not people are holding back based on body language isn't really the same as judging character.

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#18431: Feb 18th 2016 at 11:59:54 AM

The funny thing is, Vegeta already knew about the higher power level and immediately abandoned it because he saw the flaw in it.

edited 18th Feb '16 12:00:06 PM by HextarVigar

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#18432: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:02:11 PM

Yeah, that's more or less exactly what he said. He's had the shit kicked out of him by every powerful foe they've ever gone up against and it's given him a really good impression of when someone is going all-out and when they're holding back. Ki-sensing has nothing to do with it.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#18433: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:02:38 PM

[up][up]Vegeta knew about Grade 3/Ultra Super Saiyan, but Trunks was actually holding back power on top of that.

edited 18th Feb '16 12:02:52 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#18434: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:19:10 PM

[up]What makes you think that?

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#18435: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:24:07 PM

Fuck, that was a good episode.

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HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#18436: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:25:49 PM

If I remeber correctly, wasn't it something along the lines of: Trunks: "Hey dad! I'm even more powerful than you! Dammit, why can't I hit anything?!" Vegeta: "Why do you think I'm not using that, dumbass?"

edited 18th Feb '16 12:26:08 PM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#18437: Feb 18th 2016 at 12:27:43 PM

[up][up][up]You'll see next episode, but Trunks powers up, scares Krillin with his new strength, then sandbags against Cell until Krillin takes Vegeta away, THEN powers up even more to his max (it's unclear which one was him transforming to Ultra Super Saiyan and which one was him powering up to full power in whatever form he was in).

edited 18th Feb '16 12:30:23 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#18438: Feb 18th 2016 at 5:23:00 PM

[up][up] Well, Vegeta wasn't actually conscious to see Trunks using Grade 3/Ultra/whatever the hell you want to call that form. It was Cell who told Trunks off about the forms' flaws. Trunks just theorises that Vegeta realised it, as well.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
WaterMasterGali92 Hello again! from Remnant Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hello again!
#18439: Feb 18th 2016 at 5:32:19 PM

Fantastic episode. I have to say, seeing Final Flash being used never gets old. Love that move.

You can't get it wrong if it's the truth!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#18440: Feb 18th 2016 at 5:35:57 PM

Knowing that Goku and Cell could achieve the form, I'm almost certain Vegeta knew of the form, he's too tactically sound to not test out the limits of his power. He didn't use it because he recognized it's crippling flaws.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18441: Feb 18th 2016 at 5:54:08 PM

That sounds too smart for Vegeta.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#18442: Feb 18th 2016 at 5:56:13 PM

It is actually the case, though. Vegeta is fully aware he could bulk up further, but then he'd be too slow. Trunks also found it out on his own, but thought Vegeta just didn't know about it rather than deliberately avoiding it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18443: Feb 18th 2016 at 6:01:59 PM

[up][up]Vegeta's actually pretty good with stuff like that. He figured out what the point of why Goku and Gohan got Super Saiyan to be like their normal state right after seeing it while Trunks just thought it was another way to power up.

edited 18th Feb '16 6:02:34 PM by LSBK

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#18444: Feb 18th 2016 at 6:42:26 PM

Proving once and for all that speed trumps power except when it doesn't.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18445: Feb 19th 2016 at 4:08:14 AM

[up][up] yeh

He's not quite as switched on as Goku but waaaay ahead of Trunks.

You'll see next episode, but Trunks powers up, scares Krillin with his new strength, then sandbags against Cell until Krillin takes Vegeta away, THEN powers up even more to his max (it's unclear which one was him transforming to Ultra Super Saiyan and which one was him powering up to full power in whatever form he was in).

It's actually not unclear at all. When Trunks first transforms, his hair changes and his muscles grow from Super Saiyan Grade II. His second power-up just causes a few veins in his head to bulge - his muscles and hairstyle stay the same.

He transformed into Grade III first, but didn't reveal his full power until Vegeta was safe.

Grade III was the only thing that made him think he'd surpassed Vegeta. It's super clear.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#18446: Feb 19th 2016 at 4:12:53 AM

The hairstyle change was solely due to his powering up exploding the hair tie. The first one was probably Ultra, but it's not explicitly stated.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18447: Feb 19th 2016 at 4:22:57 AM

The hairstyle change was solely due to his powering up exploding the hair tie

Why on earth would his power explode his hair tie and nothing else? His hairstyle changing and breaking the hair tie as a result makes more sense.

Goku's Grade III also changes his hairstyle, so it would be more consistent with that.

edit: maybe you're thinking of the anime filler which shows his hair tie burn up. The manga shows his hair twitching before it immediately changes and the tie is torn apart.

The first one was probably Ultra, but it's not explicitly stated.

It's definitely Grade III. For starters, the entire conversation Kuririn and Trunks have is about Trunks having another form.

Then you've got the muscle mass, which is different from Grade II but exactly the same after Trunks' power-up. Goku demonstrates both Grade II and III, and the muscle mass matches Goku's Grade III exactly.

There's no reason to believe he went from "Grade II to Grade II Full Power to Grade III" rather than the obvious "Grade II to Grade III to Grade III Full Power".

Then we've got guidebooks that both label his first transformation as Grade III and state that Trunks only surpassed Grade II Vegeta's power by using Grade III. Now I know the mere mention of a guidebook has a lot of people say "they don't count/they're wrong" but it's downright silly to dismiss guidebook information out of hand because of where it comes from rather than any actual argument against the information.


There's also the fact that in the original coloured pages of the manga, Grade III has a distinctly different hair colour from Grade II. And Trunks' first transformation changes his hair colour.

edited 19th Feb '16 4:27:33 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#18448: Feb 19th 2016 at 4:38:54 AM

Okay, fine.

Just to clarify though, he does power up twice, implying that he never went full power in Grade 2.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18450: Feb 19th 2016 at 7:25:51 AM

So the point is that Trunks didn't really surpass Vegeta, he just thought he did because he wasn't as experienced a fighter? Because that's the assumption I've been working under for awhile.


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