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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17276: Dec 27th 2015 at 11:15:21 PM

If it was unclear I was responding to the idea that they're going to try and end the "Goku is a bad dad" subplot with Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan.

I absolutely don't see that happening, although in saying that it would be an absolutely hilarious subversion to spend the entire series saying he's a shit father and then take the only canon evidence for it and play it as if this time he's doing the right thing.

edited 27th Dec '15 11:15:34 PM by Saiga

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#17277: Dec 27th 2015 at 11:20:16 PM

[up][up]I think you have that backwards.
[down]More in the "in my opinion, that line of reasoning makes no sense" way I've covered before.

edited 28th Dec '15 5:59:16 AM by wanderlustwarrior

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17278: Dec 27th 2015 at 11:22:30 PM

[up] No?

[up][up] Ah, Okay.

I have a message from another time...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#17279: Dec 27th 2015 at 11:38:23 PM

I wouldn't mind the "Goku is a shit father" jokes if people didn't act like the abridged characterization is actually how things were in the real series. Which a lot of people do.

I'm not going to argue that Goku's a perfect father and if you actually want to discuss how his Saiyan instincts and decision making skills affect his family that's fine but that's a far cry from how things are portrayed here. People acting like they're the same is very annoying to me.

edited 28th Dec '15 5:20:56 AM by LSBK

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#17280: Dec 28th 2015 at 2:24:34 AM

[up] Basically this. Sometimes, I wonder if TFS actually feels guilty about creating a sort of alternate canon that people believe is 100% the actual show. Things like Krillin being the wimpiest character ever, Goku not caring about his son one bit, Nappa being a complete idiot...stuff like that.

I mean, not everyone stops to rewatch the original series. And sometimes they forget things go very differently there. On the one hand, I'm sure people realise Nail and Kami don't stay in Piccolo's head to provide narration. But people who watch DBZA think Goku is a lot worse of a father than he actually is.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#17281: Dec 28th 2015 at 2:38:12 AM

He is a really horrible father but not quite as bad as and not in the same way as Abridged Goku.

Vegeta though should be as cocky as Abridged Vegeta.

Krillin though IS that weak in Z since he is so out matched by everyone he faces, he tries though.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#17282: Dec 28th 2015 at 3:05:08 AM

He's not as weak as in Abridged though, where Tenshinhan seems much stronger and Gohan couldn't even supress his power as low as Krillin's

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#17283: Dec 28th 2015 at 3:22:04 AM

[up]For all the good it did him, however, it might as well be.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
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#17284: Dec 28th 2015 at 3:26:53 AM

[up]x4: To be fair about Nappa, Canon Nappa barely had any character. He was pretty much just a personality-less obstacle.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#17285: Dec 28th 2015 at 5:02:48 AM

Also, there's a difference between weaker than everyone and being a wimp. Abridged Krillin is characterized as a Lovable Coward that everyone in-universe hates and who will often try to finagle his way out of danger unless he has no choice, while canon Krillin is more just aware of his own limitations while still being brave enough to keep fighting anyway.

edited 28th Dec '15 5:17:58 AM by KnownUnknown

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#17286: Dec 28th 2015 at 5:24:43 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Why? Seriously, people say that but they don't ever bother explaining why. Or if they do they don't actually look at things in proper context. In proper context the only things that actually paint him as horrible are blindsiding Gohan with the Cell fight and apparently just leaving to train Uub at the end of the series, which has probably been retconed out of existence.

People just take the "Goku is a horrible father" line to heart, and I used too until I thought about and released most of it's just bad timing more than anything else.

edited 28th Dec '15 5:25:28 AM by LSBK

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#17287: Dec 28th 2015 at 8:12:26 AM

I never done watched the source material, but I got you guys, so there's that.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#17288: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:07:02 AM

In proper context the only things that actually paint him as horrible are blindsiding Gohan with the Cell fight and apparently just leaving to train Uub at the end of the series

These are huge offenses, Goku's personal philosophy be damned.

I mean, I'm not going on that Goku is an absolutely terrible person, but he's not father of the year either. Though by anime standards (Gendo Ikari, Hohenheim, what'shis'face' from Attack on Titan), he's certainly not the worst.

edited 28th Dec '15 10:17:46 AM by Soble

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#17289: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:11:13 AM

There was also his really poor logic in staying dead, made far worse by not contacting his family, like he could at any time, via King Kai.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17290: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:12:58 AM

I still think "Goku is a bad dad" is a plot point that's going to be resolved at the Cell Games.

Goku being a shitty father will be part of the catalyst for Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan 2, while Goku dramatically reconciling with Gohan and Gohan forgiving him will be the push he needs to win the Kamehameha duel with Super Perfect Cell.

Also, I still love how much time TFS is spending on building Krillin/Android 18 from her perspective as well as his. It takes away from the idea of 18 as a narrative reward for Krillin to end his subplot and makes the impending relationship more meaningful for both characters, via giving 18 some agency in the blossoming romance.

edited 28th Dec '15 10:13:36 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17291: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:13:52 AM

I mean, the Earth dragon balls can't bring him back at that point, and they don't even know where New Namek is.

They only got Dende because Goku can teleport. And he's dead now.

And since he's dead, he's not technically really supposed to be calling his living family via a god (a god he killed, mind) unless it's an actual emergency?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17292: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:16:41 AM

Given that Kaio-sama refused resurrection so he could stay with Goku on his journey through the afterlife - for some reason? It's never clear why he needs to stay dead for this - I'd imagine he's not too sore about it.

The only time he brings it up, IIRC, is during Super and that's done as a distraction to keep Goku from inquiring about Beerus.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#17293: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:18:01 AM

[up][up][up]I think it'll be resolved before then.

[up][up]I doubt King Kai would mind too much. I mean, the only other thing they seem to do is train. Also, Goku really should teach Instant Transmission to someone else. Like, I dunno, his son(s).

"No Goku, she's totally still terrorizing the planet. We're just not doing anything about it."
18 became one of my favorite characters once she got development. I liked Krillin more and disliked Roshi more, because of that.

[up]Hmm... what if Piccolo had a permanent death (like in GT), could he introduce a set of Dragon Balls to otherworld? Not that there would be any real need to.

edited 28th Dec '15 10:19:15 AM by wanderlustwarrior

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17294: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:19:27 AM

I can't imagine it being resolved any time soon. It has to last until the moment when Piccolo calls out Goku for being a shitty father, at the earliest.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#17295: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:22:43 AM

I just don't see it going farther than this year that they have of just the two of them where Goku spends the whole time believing in Gohan. After that, the two spend some time in canon together and apart happily, and the only other conflict to others was when Goku seemed to be believing in Gohan too much.

They'd have to completely alter the tone and content of the source footage, and reverse the direction they're already going in, to carry the conflict on longer than when they're in the HTC.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17296: Dec 28th 2015 at 10:34:07 AM

Not necessarily. I see this sequence as a sort of Hope Spot for Gohan. It seems like Goku's actually being a good dad and caring about him and taking care of him, right up until all of that is subverted at the Cell Games when Goku's just been honing him into a weapon to destroy Cell with.

It's building Gohan's hopes up just to tear them down at the critical moment, which will be when Piccolo calls out Goku and Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan 2.

Remember: Goku's song wasn't about how much he loves Gohan. It's about how much he wants Gohan to become a Super Saiyan. Gohan might see this as quality time with his dad, but Goku's training him to service his master plan for destroying Cell. Gohan is in for massive disappointment when Goku tries to pull the trigger on the weapon he's building.

edited 28th Dec '15 10:36:46 AM by TobiasDrake

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#17297: Dec 28th 2015 at 11:18:04 AM

What is your favorite couple in abridged and regular series canon? For abridged it's Bulma and Vegeta for making me laugh so hard during the sex scene. My favorite regular series couple should be obvious.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17298: Dec 28th 2015 at 11:30:13 AM

Krillin/18 is definitely getting there in the Abridged. The amount of development they're receiving from TFS is fantastic.

For canon, Bulma/Vegeta. They're perfect for each other in all the worst ways.

edited 28th Dec '15 11:30:40 AM by TobiasDrake

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Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#17299: Dec 28th 2015 at 11:32:34 AM

Personally, I like Krillin and 18 because their fanart exposed me to the series. Weird. Also, they're the actual best parents in DBZ.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#17300: Dec 28th 2015 at 11:33:29 AM

Yeah, as far as I care about couples Krillin & 18 are probably my favorites too, so I like where it's going in abridged as well. All the other couples in the series are seriously messed up, and there's more focus on their relationships with their kids or friends anyway.

On the other hand, Super finally made me like Vegeta and Bulma together. Two amoral schemers married to each other, they're so hilariously adversarial.

I would like Gohan and Videl, if Videl wasn't always just kinda... there after her intro story. She's sometimes used as a Naïve Newcomer, but there never really seems to be much to her.

edited 28th Dec '15 11:35:57 AM by KnownUnknown


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