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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#16276: Dec 9th 2015 at 10:58:33 AM

Yeah, but it looks so AWESOME

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BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#16277: Dec 9th 2015 at 10:58:55 AM

I always just figured she inherited the Potential Unleash from Gohan... somehow.

DB biology's never pretended to make any form of sense.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#16278: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:05:41 AM

[up][up]

True dat.

[up]Gohan unleashed some of his potential all right. And that's why he sucks now. Because Pan got all of that reserve, mystical energy. Biology!

Oh god, I hope that's not an actual reason. At this point, with Frieza's magical 4-month exercise plan, I can't be sure.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:08:07 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16279: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:06:32 AM

The fact that becoming Super Saiyan doesn't mean as much makes it so that it stands out more when the one character that fights who can't is the only girl.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#16280: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:08:46 AM

[up]x5 I think people are mad because it was the one chance to get a decent girl fighter on the team considering after 10 years it never happened.

18 got the 'became good then got sidelined' treatment that many competent girls get like Soma in Gundam 00, Videl never got anything but the crap beaten out of her and well that's it.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:09:13 AM by Memers

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#16281: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:08:48 AM

[up][up] That.

It's not about how meaningful it would be if she could become a Super Saiyan. It's about how meaningful it is that she can't. At a time when every Saiyan character can become a Super Saiyan, a decision was made to deprive Pan of it.

Even Bardock's a Super Saiyan now.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:09:34 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#16282: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:09:59 AM

Everyone gets upset about this, the fact that there are no female Super Saiyans, that Pan hasn't done it yet, that this is some sort of imbalance. Does it matter?

For some, the fact that she never goes Super Saiyan means she's weak/powerless/useless. For some, the fact that she is the only female Saiyan and the only Saiyan to never go Super Saiyan is indictive of institutionalized sexism. For some, it's both.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:10:44 AM by Watchtower

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#16283: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:10:08 AM

But when being a Super Saiyan is tantamount to being irrelevant, is it really a good thing for said girl to have it? She's doing more with what she has than people who have access to a supposedly greater echelon of power than her.

I don't know, that's how I see it. I don't see the point of giving someone a Super Form when the symbolism of that form is basically done and gone. Super Saiyan used to mean Let's Get Dangerous!, now it's basically a wig.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:12:21 AM by Soble

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Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#16284: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:12:35 AM

The very ability to go Super Saiyan is relevancy enough.

(I get your overall point, I'm just providing the common argument)

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16285: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:12:35 AM

I mean, if Pan was stronger than Trunks that'd be one thing. Instead the order of combat competence in GT tended to go Goku, then Trunks, then Pan.

...Then Giru, if, y'know, you really want to count the little bastard.

I don't know, that's how I see it. I don't see the point of giving someone a Super Form when the symbolism of that form is basically done and gone.

Because when everyone can do a thing it creates a different sort of symbolism for the character that can't.

But when being a Super Saiyan is tantamount to being irrelevant, is it really a good thing for said girl to have it? She's doing more with what she has than people who have access to a supposedly greater echelon of power than her.

I mean, you could say that Piccolo is doing more with what he's got than anyone that's not a Saiyan, or Krillin is doing better than anyone that's not an alien, or Tien is doing better than anyone that's not Yamcha.

There's still a bit of power imbalance involved.

And as time goes on those characters do, in fact, become irrelevant.

Whether she'd still be irrelevant as a Super Saiyan is. I mean. I dunno.

At the very least she'd be less irrelevant.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:18:33 AM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#16286: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:17:52 AM

For instance, one might argue that the significance of flight is lost. Everyone and their dog can fly. It's not special anymore. It's not a special technique of the Tsuru school. It's just a fundamental basic now.

And yet, Mr. Satan cannot fly. Mr. Satan is reduced to walking on the ground and letting other characters carry him. Even though there is no meaning in Vegeta or Piccolo flying, there is meaning in Mr. Satan's inability to fly. It demonstrates how powerless he truly is.

Even if there is no meaning in bestowing the ability upon a new character, there is still meaning in denying it.

edited 9th Dec '15 11:18:43 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16287: Dec 9th 2015 at 11:27:09 AM

Mr. Buu's dog can't fly.

...Although I am now picturing Bee flying and it's kinda great.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#16288: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:02:28 PM

http://teamfourstar.com/video/dbcember-top-24-movies-and-specials-16/

Blood Rubies galore

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#16289: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:04:07 PM

Indeed.

At this point, they are tossing out Super Saiyan to everyone, but are singling out the only female saiyan in the group. Pan being excluded, regardless of how useful Super Saiyan is at this point, or how relevant it'd make her, seems to serve no real purpose beyond singling her out because she's a girl.

And Toriyama's excuse about not knowing how to draw a female Super Saiyan is pretty ridiculous when you consider that all he needs to do is give her some spiky hair of some sort. Or that he apparently never bothered to try and learn.

It does explain why all the saiyans who came later were male if it's true, but he had plenty of time to learn, and just never tried.

I mean, now that you mention it, tossing Pan the super saiyan form when everyone else has gotten it does seem pointless since it's not as meaningful as it used to be, but as also pointed out, the sole female saiyan (barring the female saiyan from heroes, or whatever she is) not getting the form is also galling.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#16290: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:07:28 PM

I think Broly would be liked by us a lot more if his "Legendary Super Saiyan Form" was just his mutation of Super Saiyan 2, and not the original dubs insistence on being "The True Legendary Super Saiyan". Also, he shouldn't have gotten more than 1 movie.

I think Broly would have been better received if it wasn't for that obsession with Goku (KAKAROT!). Just have him be a freakishly strong saiyan who wants to kill all the other Saiyans because King Vegeta preemptively tried to off him. It'd make Vegeta's fear of him more rational and remove the "I went insane because Goku made me cry."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#16291: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:09:18 PM

Alternately, he could want to kill off the other Super Saiyans because their existence makes him less special.

"Monster? No. I am A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE!!!"

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#16292: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:11:55 PM

If I could redo the movie, I'd have Broly be the same age as Vegeta instead of Goku. Still have King Vegeta try to assassinate the kid, but because Vegeta still have memories of how freakishly strong he was supposed to be, it would explain why he was so scared to fight him.

I'd probably even have Paragus dying to protect Broly so that that would be the root of why he became so unhinged.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#16293: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:28:14 PM

Broly being a Saiyan Big Bad trying to recapture the destructive glory of the Saiyans now that Freeza was gone, but dismisses the others as weak, would've been interested - especially since that point was around the point when Vegeta was just starting to change for the better (if extremely slowly), so Broly could've made a decent Evil(er) Counterpart for Vegeta.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:28:46 PM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#16294: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:29:26 PM

Mmm, any motivation that involves the words "now that Frieza is gone" suffers from the Voodoo Shark it raises: why didn't Broly just kill Frieza?

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#16295: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:30:23 PM

Maybe Broly didn't know where Freeza was, or he tried that and failed?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#16296: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:33:12 PM

Three things.

  • "There you are, Frieza. I've been looking for you." "Well, I'm not exactly hard to find!" Frieza sits on a mighty throne. I can't imagine it would at all be difficult to reach him. He's not subtle.
  • If Broly had tried to kill Frieza, he would have succeeded.
  • If, by some miracle, Broly had failed, I think Frieza would have been far less skeptical about Super Saiyans after surviving an assassination attempt from The Legendary Super Saiyan.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#16297: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:45:34 PM

OK then, maybe Broly was about to take his revenge, but Namek went boom boom by that point.

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JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#16298: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:50:03 PM

Didn't expect Blood Rubies to be this low, by their own admission, it's a pretty good film.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#16299: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:16:00 PM

I gotta say, that was a really good "Japanese are perverts" gag at the end. At least, I had a good laugh about it. It's either because of some really good comedic timing of the "gaddangit, Japan", or because I'm surfing the internet even though I should've been in bed hours ago.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16300: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:17:40 PM

Probably comedic timing since TFS are masters of it. They've gotten so good at it that their timing is excellent even in the live stuff.

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