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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15476: Nov 20th 2015 at 10:44:43 AM

This is a few pages back but Vegeta wasn't wrong when he said "pretty sure that makes eight" Androids 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, and 13 make eight.

And it doesn't seem like they were treating Cell as a thing they knew about yet.

He wasn't counting ones Trunks missed, he was counting androids total. And the way Cell is addressed, both indirectly and directly, implies the good guys don't know about him.

...I hate this sort of thinking.

Goku's awake, and Krillin and Trunks blow up the basement lab at the end. Using the same dialogue as episode 44.

The scene makes more sense comedically as a follow up to "DO I HEAR FIVE" anyway. Which was, in turn, a call back to "I'm pretty sure that's three androids you missed, do I hear 4".

3 plus 5 is 8.

The joke is about how Trunks said "2 androids will show up" but it turns out that different androids showed up. And that there were more than he knew about.

Counting the androids Trunks did know about would make the joke not funny.

Like. Context.

More context.

All of the context.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:31:58 AM by unnoun

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#15477: Nov 20th 2015 at 10:54:00 AM

When did he ask if he heard five?

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15478: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:04:16 AM

Episode 44.

Assuming that Vegeta was including 17 and 18 would make the "pretty sure that makes 8" joke have nothing to do with the joke in the main series that makes Trunks not wanting to tell Vegeta about 14, 15 and 13, and Vegeta not wanting to let Trunks live it down have any comedic impact whatsoever.

Yes, I know I started this but I was being facetious and pedantic.

The intent of Vegeta's joke in the movie is obvious. Saying he meant 17 and 18 is the sort of ridiculous contortion of logic that has nothing to do with narrative intent that I despise.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:08:52 AM by unnoun

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#15479: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:09:14 AM

It's pretty clearly meant as a follow-up to the running joke about the Androids Trunks missed.

  • On 16: "So that's three Androids you've missed, do I hear four?"
  • On Cell: "DO I HEAR FIVE?!"
  • On 13, 14, and 15: "Pretty sure that brings us up to eight. Never letting the boy live this one down."

Problem is, as noted, Vegeta never got his fifth android. I think this was just a mistake.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:09:30 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15480: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:17:41 AM

Funnily enough, I just now noticed that you can actually hear Trunks's "if we find anymore androids down here, please don't tell my father" from Episode 44 in the background when Trunks and Krillin reach the lab.

Which is frankly even funnier in the context of the movie.

Like, the audio is difficult to make out, because Gero is talking, so you have to be listening for the voices muffled by both Gero's voice and the doors to the bunker, but. But I definitely heard the lines and they're there, so. That's neat.

[up] I don't think it matters, personally.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:22:01 AM by unnoun

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#15481: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:43:16 AM

So either Vegeta was talking about androids Trunks missed and got the number wrong (13, 14, 15, 16, 19, and 20 only make 6, and Cell makes 7), or he got the number right and was talking about androids total (minus Cell, that's 8). Maybe there'll be something about that in the movie breakdown, like when he explained sureyoucan.

Either way, it fits with the general joke of Vegeta mocking Trunks for his future info being full of holes.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:44:51 AM by Enlong

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15482: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:43:55 AM

It doesn't fit the second way.

It definitely doesn't fit the part where Vegeta is mocking Trunks for androids he missed.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:44:24 AM by unnoun

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#15483: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:46:27 AM

Eh. That's a specific part of the general joke of him calling Trunks's future info useless.

Yes, it'd make more sense if he'd said six, or seven.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:47:41 AM by Enlong

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15484: Nov 20th 2015 at 11:49:52 AM

I mean, then you'd have people complaining that the last version of the joke was "DO I HEAR FIVE" and.

I mean.

...Frankly I dunno how you forgot that one because I thought it was pretty memorable.

...Also, I think trying to fit this movie into the timeline of the series doesn't quite work. Or rather, I would say that this movie, more than any of the others TFS has done, is actively designed to engage with the series, given the first scene is from episode 38 and one of the last ones is from 44, but. At the same time, saying "this movie is set at x time" is not something that can actually be true.

edited 20th Nov '15 11:52:09 AM by unnoun

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#15485: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:00:55 PM

I don't appreciate the implication (well, more like a statement) that I don't agree because I forgot the scene in question. I remember it, I think that referencing the previous scene directly would've made more sense, and I say that either Vegeta was using a different count, or someone on TFS miscounted, because 8 doesn't work unless you include Cell and I guess Eighter.

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#15486: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:04:28 PM

...Also, I think trying to fit this movie into the timeline of the series doesn't quite work. Or rather, I would say that this movie, more than any of the others TFS has done, is actively designed to engage with the series, given the first scene is from episode 38 and one of the last ones is from 44, but. At the same time, saying "this movie is set at x time" is not something that can actually be true.

This. It's an inevitable consequence of the movies in general, really. They did as good a job as they could, but continuity errors are inevitable and there's only so much control they have over it.

For example, Goku can't be in this movie. He spent the entire Android arc dying of a heart disease, and taking everyone to the Room of Spirit and Time was the first thing he did when he recovered. But Trunks changed his outfit, grew out his hair, and stopped using his sword after his RoSaT training, then remained in his new look through the Cell Games.

Gohan hasn't undergone his RoSaT training either, as evidenced by his pre-RoSaT appearance and lack of Super Saiyan ability. Vegeta never busts out Super Vegeta, nor does Trunks bust out his Grade 2 form (or Super Trunks, but not using that makes sense) even when they're getting wrecked by Super 13.

So this movie clearly must take place while Goku is dying of the heart illness. But that means Goku cannot be in this movie, and there's nothing TFS can do to work around that fact other than to simply ignore it and forge ahead like the movie's writer did.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:07:01 PM by TobiasDrake

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#15487: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:06:32 PM

Yes?

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JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#15488: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:07:08 PM

The joke is simple, Vegeta is counting 19 (1), 20 (2), 16 (3), "The secret project in the basement" (do I hear 4?), Cell (FIVE!!), and then he added the three that appeared in the movie (bringing the count up to 8).

Vegeta is just unaware that "The secret project in the basement" and Cell are the same entity.

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#15489: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:13:24 PM

No. When they learn about 16, he says "that makes 3. Do I hear 4?" 4 not being the current count, but what he anticipates.

When Cell shows up, making 4 Trunks has missed, he calls back the previous line "DO I HEAR FIVE?" So, the count's at 4, and Vegeta's expecting a fifth one Trunks missed. He doesn't get that in the main series, but he gets 3 more in the movie (count's at 7, if they know about Cell in the movie, 6 otherwise).

"Do I hear eight?" Would've fit.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:13:54 PM by Enlong

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15490: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:14:34 PM

No, the joke is Vegeta being an ass to Trunks.

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#15491: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:16:52 PM

So we are in agreement after all.

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#15492: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:21:16 PM

Well geeze. I just took the joke as "Haha! There's actually eight androids instead of two. My idiot son can't count".

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15493: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:25:32 PM

Frankly I'm surprised Vegeta isn't more upset that Kakarot's kid is both smarter and stronger than his.

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#15494: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:27:50 PM

Well, right now, he doesn't have a reason to be. He gives Trunks a lot of crap for misidentifying the Androids but between him and Gohan...well, Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan.

We might see what he thinks when the Cell Games come around.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
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#15495: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:28:47 PM

To be fair, all the teachers were likely blown up in Trunk's time, so Gohan probably had a better education due to their actually being people to teach him.

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#15496: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:29:27 PM

Vegeta cares nothing for your principles of "fairness".

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15497: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:30:30 PM

Gohan's been homeschooled all his life in a cabin in the mountains.

The Son family are hicks.

They're a hell of a lot more country than Android 13 could ever be.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:31:00 PM by unnoun

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#15498: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:31:54 PM

He might even be better educated than Chi-Chi, come to think of it.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:32:24 PM by TobiasDrake

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#15499: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:35:39 PM

He's probably approaching Bulma's level when it comes to intelligence, really. He already has a firmer grasp on theoretical physics (well, it's just physics now) than I think even Future Trunks did. He also seems to know a lot about molecular biology (I seem to mention such a book being referenced) and peach farming.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15500: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:36:12 PM

...Frankly, I'm surprised that they have both television and electricity.

And that Chichi would let Gohan watch Tattooed Teenage Alien Fighters from Beverly Hills.

...Or that she'd care about the version of Huck Finn with the N-word taken out.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:36:37 PM by unnoun


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