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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#15426: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:19:23 PM

Maybe, it depends on how you want to look at it. I like to think that Toriyama is craftier than he appears to be.

It's interesting that people complain about the Cell Saga's shifting villains (Androids 19 and 20, Androids 17 and 18, Cell) and then people complain about the Buu Saga's shifting heroes (Gotenks, Gohan, Vegito and Goku).

Anyways I was just reading the latter part of the Buu Saga actually and if Tori wanted Gohan to be the hero, he changed his mind pretty fast. Gohan beats Buu up for a chapter and then Gohan starts losing a chapter later after Buu absorbs Gotenks.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#15427: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:20:20 PM

I just feel sorry for Kaiser. It's going to be a lot more effort to record and sync up Gotenks's voice.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#15428: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:39:27 PM

If only they could have Lirran record for Gotenks.

I have a message from another time...
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#15429: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:40:56 PM

Whatever happened to the person that was initially voicing Chiaotzu?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#15430: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:56:40 PM

I don't think Toriyama would lie in his interviews. I also doubt the Boo arc is intended as a parosy when Gotenks exists, who is a more obvious parody.

Toriyama isn't subtle.

[up][up][up][up] he could have changed his mind earlier and then tried to build up Gohan's defeat against Bootenks, or already had Bootenks planned as the final villain for Gohan to defeat.

I doubt his plan was ever "Gohan returns with an overwhelming advantage over Boo and beats him without difficulty". That's pre-Z material.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#15431: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:44:45 PM

[up] You're probably right. Although it'd be funny if he did create the Buu Saga as a self-parody and then forgot that that's what he did.

Man, Dragon Ball moves pretty fast.

@Saiga I dunno, I doubt that Tori was building up Buutenks as the final enemy for Gohan. He spells it outright as he transforms that he's only got 5 minutes to kill Gohan as Buutenks. That's a pretty fast final battle.

Before anyone brings up Freeza, let me remind you that the manga is much faster-paced than that.

"Gohan returns with an overwhelming advantage over Boo and beats him without difficulty".

That's a good point though. I think Tori probably changed his mind about Gohan being the hero before Gohan ever got on the battlefield but realized he had to follow through with what he already began.

edited 18th Nov '15 10:48:12 PM by MadSkillz

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#15433: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:35:24 PM

Poor, naive Gilly Gilly. Did you actually think Toei only made 1 episode out of each chapter in that fight?

[up][up][up][up] Even if it's not as stretched out as the anime, it's still a decent length and the final battle. So 5 minutes in-universe is definitely enough time for a final battle if Toriyama wants it.

Furthermore Boo doesn't actually suffer the Super Saiyan 3 drawback, he gets the full 30 minutes in the form. It's mentioned that Gohan held out for 20 minutes without healing, and then nearly made the full 10 after that.

I agree that Toriyama probably changed his mind before Gohan arrived at the battlefield, but sometime after Gohan was taken to Kaioshin's planet. That explains the pacing of everything best.

edited 18th Nov '15 11:40:25 PM by Saiga

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#15434: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:37:29 PM

/shrugs

It's more like I'd never bothered to investigate it. I'm certainly willing to believe you if you say that's not the case.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#15435: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:40:54 PM

I'll have you know that Toei made 19 episodes out of 18 chapters of manga.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#15436: Nov 19th 2015 at 12:28:08 AM

And those 18 chapters probably only contained around 13 pages per chapter.

@Saiga Ah, you're right. I missed a page when I reading through the last half.

All I know is that Gotenks was never intended as the hero and that I hope Super retcons Dragon Ball's ending.

edited 19th Nov '15 12:28:20 AM by MadSkillz

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15437: Nov 19th 2015 at 4:34:34 PM

Rewatching episode 48. Out of curiosity, could Tien have kept those Kikohos going for longer if he'd had a Senzu bean?

...Could a Saiyan use the Kikoho to get a Zenkai?

...Could Cell use the Kikoho to get a Zenkai?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#15438: Nov 19th 2015 at 4:36:34 PM

If the plot needed it they probably could.

Oh really when?
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#15439: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:02:38 PM

I think Vegeta told Krillin on Namek (at least in Kai) that it wouldn't work if self-inflicted.

Otherwise he'd just keep beating himself senseless or something.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15440: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:04:49 PM

Huh.

That's. Oddly specific.

...How can their bodies tell the difference?

...Also, doesn't that contradict Cell's Zenkai that made him Super Perfect?

I think that self destruct features classify as self-inflicted by their very nature.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#15441: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:08:34 PM

It's probably something to do with the warrior spirit. So it's more metaphorical than something to do with the physiological aspects of that.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15442: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:10:25 PM

Yeah, so when is Tien going to get a Zenkai?

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#15443: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:14:02 PM

I mean it's still a thing specific to Saiyans.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15444: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:23:46 PM

Well then it's a physiological thing. Somehow.

Granted it still doesn't make sense.

I mean, it worked when Cell tried to blow himself up because he was mad about losing.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#15445: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:36:31 PM

Goku was getting Zenkais from blasting himself with kamehamehas in his spaceship so you're probably misremembering what Vegeta said.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#15446: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:42:06 PM

No, I remember Vegeta saying something like that too.

Maybe it can't be intentional self harm? I dunno.

Oh really when?
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#15447: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:46:59 PM

But that was the entire point of Goku's training on the way to Namek.

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#15448: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:49:47 PM

I think Vegeta just heard wrong.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#15449: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:50:32 PM

Maybe it's like how it's impossible to tickle yourself.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#15450: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:25:42 PM

It's only impossible using your own hands.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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