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OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Constellation
#14402: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:42:08 PM

Right, I forgot to convert the 44000 days into years.

We are all made of star stuff. Very, very weird star stuff.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14403: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:42:48 PM

[up][up] That page is full of made up power levels.

That might actually be worse than the main Dragon Ball wiki. At least that uses sources.

edited 26th Sep '15 6:43:32 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14404: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:46:01 PM

Obviously those numbers are fan-made and, as fan-made Power Levels go, they're not bad. I disagree with some of them but I agree with the vast majority.

OrionAurora Constellation from Andromeda Galaxy Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Constellation
#14405: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:52:52 PM

@Power level list: Alright, lets look at Vegeta's power level throughout the Namek saga:

  • Saiyan saga: V = 15k to 18k
  • Post Saiyan zenkai boost: V = 24k
  • Post Zarbon zenkai boost: V = 28k
  • Post Recoom zenkai boost: V = 130k (from a lack of sleep for some reason)
  • Post sleep zenkai boost: V = 460k
  • Post Krillin zenkai boost: V = 1.8M

So... how bullshit are power levels again?

We are all made of star stuff. Very, very weird star stuff.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14406: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:57:28 PM

Most of those are fanmade, to begin with (all but two listed).

Secondly, that doesn't make them bullshit. The gains might be ridiculous but they're still an accurate reflection of a character's strength.

It's not the battle powers that are bullshit, it's the power ups. That's a pretty significant difference, those power ups were bullshit even before we had the numerical ranking system.

edited 26th Sep '15 6:57:47 PM by Saiga

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#14407: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:57:37 PM

The problem with "power levels are bullshit" is that for the important characters and featured fighters, a power up is generally enough to put someone a little stronger or weaker than their next opponent, consistently, and without reason as to how much a jump that should be.

The other problem is that Vegeta benefits more from that bullshit than anyone else, in part because he's always getting his ass kicked, thus getting a lot of zenkais, especially at that point. He's complaining from something he benefits from himself.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14408: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:57:47 PM

I personally think that Vegeta wasn't showing his full power against Cui and his Level at the time was 27,000 with his next Zenkai putting him at 35,000 but, aside from that, those all look fine to me.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14409: Sep 26th 2015 at 6:58:35 PM

Why 27,000? Because of how easily he beat up Dodoria and Zarbon?

edited 26th Sep '15 6:58:57 PM by Saiga

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14411: Sep 26th 2015 at 7:00:04 PM

[up][up]Exactly. Most people have them higher than 20,000 and the difference between 20,000 and 24,000 is a little too tight for elbow room.

[up]Never said it wasn't.

edited 26th Sep '15 7:01:51 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#14412: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:01:44 PM

It's not the battle powers that are bullshit, it's the power ups. That's a pretty significant difference, those power ups were bullshit even before we had the numerical ranking system.

You're right. I think that's what I really meant.....though Frieza probably should not have been as ridiculously as powerful as he was. If not for that, ridiculous power ups wouldn't have been needed.

One Strip! One Strip!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#14413: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:11:10 PM

Maybe "Power levels are bullshit" causes more problems than it solves. Perhaps another phrase is needed.

"I hate power levels." I think that works.

I have a message from another time...
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#14414: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:12:53 PM

I hate power levels because they are bullshit.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#14415: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:14:38 PM

Vegeta only thinks Power Levels are Bullshit because he doesn't have all the information.

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14416: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:24:43 PM

When you want to test someone's punching strength in Real Life you have them punch a machine that measures their punch in PSI. When you want to test someone's speed in Real Life you have them run a set distance and measure their speed in MPH. When you want to test someone's overall strength level in Dragon Ball you scan their Power Level. Power Levels are no more bullshit in the series they exist in than any other system of measuring is.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#14417: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:42:31 PM

"Power levels are bullshit!" was stated by Vegeta, who had no way of knowing that Piccolo had eaten Nail to gain his power.

Power levels themselves aren't bullshit; they are accurate measures of a fighter's capabilities and the weaker foe never beats the stronger foe without extenuating circumstances or finding a way to boost their power level.

It's the logic behind raising and lowering power levels that veers into bullshit, though, with zenkais, fusions, unlocking potential, and all those odd boosts.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14418: Sep 26th 2015 at 11:13:44 PM

Maybe "Power levels are bullshit" causes more problems than it solves. Perhaps another phrase is needed.

"I hate power levels." I think that works.

It's also a hell of a lot more honest.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#14419: Sep 26th 2015 at 11:25:59 PM

Accurate and to the point...the way it should be.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#14422: Sep 26th 2015 at 11:40:57 PM

Anomalocaris hits the nail on the head, I think. In context, the joke isn't exactly "Vegeta doesn't think Piccolo should be that powerful," it's "Vegeta is pissed that they even bother to denote power levels when they can be surpassed so easily." It works even better when delivered by Vegeta because he has no context for how the others get stronger, so from his perspective Piccolo just happened to multiply his power by an unfathomable degree out of nowhere, but the point that the joke itself is making isn't that "power levels are arbitrary." It's more "power levels, like death, are cheap."

Basically, it's a gag on how characters in DBZ can always break through any insurmountable power level when the plot needs them to - be it with a new transformation, the right amount of offscreen training, or some other kind of trick - arguably cheapening the effect of having those incredibly high power levels in the first place.

Like the rest of the show, it's all for the sake of Affectionate Parody.

edited 26th Sep '15 11:43:18 PM by KnownUnknown

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#14423: Sep 27th 2015 at 5:39:50 AM

The thing with Freeza is that his Dragon was 0.1% of his full power.

EdwardsSenpai Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: They grew on me like a tumor...
#14424: Sep 27th 2015 at 8:02:48 AM

@ Pushover Media Critic: Akira Toriyama actually came right out and said that after the saiyan saga, power levels are just kind of a joke. He goes even further in fukatsu no f, Akira makes the joke that Frieza's power level is like 1000000000000000000. If you want to use power levels as a legitimate stand point to base power on, you have some problems (i.e. powering up, super saiyan, god forms- which can't be sensed by scouter-, etc). Now, if you want to measure by Raditz or Krillin, depending on the saga of course, that would be a better way to measure it. You would just have to pick which Krillin to use to measure power by (Frieza saga, cell saga, etc.)

edited 27th Sep '15 8:06:44 AM by EdwardsSenpai

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#14425: Sep 27th 2015 at 8:06:26 AM

It was Freeza's voice actor. And I think it was supposed to be some sort of pun.

My various fanfics.

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