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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14351: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:00:58 PM

Buu Saga Piccolo isn't really stronger than he was in the Android Saga, where he eventually equaled Semi-Perfect Cell. Piccolo was too intimidated by Eastern Supreme Kai's power to fight him according to the Daizenshuu and Piccolo's own description of thier power being dimensions apart.

Piccolo though the 2 could beat Buu as Super Saiyans without knowing about the Fusion Dance at the time. If Piccolo were stronger, why wouldn't he have the same opinion of himself?

edited 26th Sep '15 3:01:25 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14352: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:20:53 PM

Piccolo trained in the HTC as well, and Vegeta wasn't all 'even after the Time Chamber, I'm still stronger!', he was more 'whatever, just wait to see how strong I get!' implying that Piccolo was as strong or stronger than Vegeta.

Piccolo saying the kids are the last hope isn't saying that they are stronger now, it's saying that they have the potential to be stronger in the future.

The most obvious one is that, when the kids defused in Buu, Buu turned into Buuccolo, not Buunks or Buuten. For all examples but one, the strongest person in Buu being the most influential is a hard rule and the one exception has so many alternate explanations that it shouldn't even be considered.

If I must debunk it though:

1. The Dai Kaioshin might've actually have been stronger than the South and East just wasn't including him when he said it.

2.The Dai Kaioshin status as the highest god made him take precedence over a lower god despite being weaker.

3. The Dai Kaioshin's pure good heart weakened Buu anyways so the normal absorbtion rules don't apply.

Personally, I think it's a mixture of 2 and 3.

Face it: Piccolo > Goten and/or Trunks. Fact.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14353: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:30:17 PM

Yes, Piccolo trained in the time chamber. That's what I meant when I said he was as strong as Semi-Perfect Cell.

Even of that was the case, why wouldn't Piccolo say the same thing about himself if he were stronger? You seem to have a problem answering that question.

Super Buu took on Piccolo's features because Goten and Trunks reverted to base form after their fusion ended, which we see when Goku and Vegeta go inside Super Buu to rescue them. You will not find a single person here that disagrees with Piccolo being stronger than all the base form Saiyans except Gohan, but as Super Saiyans Goten and Trunks are stronger.

I'm not sure what your Dai Kaioshin points have to do with anything.

edited 26th Sep '15 3:30:48 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14354: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:36:47 PM

Saiga's main argument against Buuccolo is the Dai Kaioshin and I wanted to cover my bases. Piccolo actually does ask Goku if Goku thinks he has a chance against Cell, though Goku says no, just doing that implies that Cell Games Piccolo is even stronger than Cell Games Goku's 50%, which I think is a fair place to put him. I just don't see any evidence towards Piccolo being weaker aside from some vague, circumstancal dialogue.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#14355: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:40:02 PM

I'm not sure how that implies that at all actually.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14356: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:42:13 PM

Okay, I stretched on that one but it is a fair place to put him, no? Again, I haven't seen anything proving Piccolo's weakness.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14357: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:42:16 PM

I just don't see any evidence towards Piccolo being weaker aside from some vague, circumstantial dialogue.

This is a completely fair reason to disagree with Goten and Trunks being stronger, but you can't act like your opinions are fact just because.

edited 26th Sep '15 3:42:22 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14358: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:44:01 PM

You're right, I shouldn't claim my opinions are fact because there isn't enough evidence to say fact either way.

edited 26th Sep '15 3:45:26 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#14359: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:51:54 PM

I would say Buu turning into Piccolo clothes once Gotenks ran out of fusion time is a fairly strong argument for Piccolo being the stronger out of the three absorbees, even after the kids spent 3 weeks in the HTC.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14360: Sep 26th 2015 at 3:57:31 PM

[up]Yeah, I think my side has more going for it, but there's no concrete proof for either side so it's still up in the air.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#14361: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:39:47 PM

Piccolo was too intimidated by Eastern Supreme Kai's power to fight him according to the Daizenshuu and Piccolo's own description of thier power being dimensions apart.

Yet Supreme Kai was intimidated by someone (Pui Pui) who Vegeta (who in base form is quite a bit weaker than Piccolo) basically laughed to death. Piccolo could have beaten Pui Pui by poking him, yet SK was afraid of him.

I think it's more likely that SK was messing with Piccolo's head rather than him actually being stronger.

Besides, I kind of doubt that Goten and Trunks were stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell. Gotenks, sure, but not separately.

[nja]Another thing, when they defused inside of Buu, he took on Piccolo's appearance, and considering he takes on the characteristics of the strongest person he's absorbed, Piccolo is definitely stronger than Goten and Trunks individually.[nja]

So strangely enough, I find myself agreeing with PMC.

edited 26th Sep '15 4:40:30 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14362: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:44:37 PM

I already said Goten and Trunks were in base form after they defused, and I already admitted that Base Goten and Trunks are weaker that Piccolo.

The Daizenshuu 7 guidebook even states that the Supreme Kai possesses strength "far superior to the Super Namekian Piccolo".

Finally, Supreme Kai was never afraid of Pui-Pui, he was just surprised that Vegeta could beat him.

edited 26th Sep '15 4:47:44 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14363: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:46:50 PM

[up][up]Thanks for agreeing but East Kaioshin wasn't actually afraid of Pocus. He just doubted that Vegeta could handle him on his own.

edited 26th Sep '15 4:47:22 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14364: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:50:25 PM

There's no way the present timeline Trunks is stronger than HTC future Trunks, whom Piccolo is implied to be at a similer level to in the Cell Saga.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14365: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:52:52 PM

That again would just be an opinion that I disagree with. Future Trunks never had a Super Saiyan sparring partner like Buu Saga Trunks did in his father and Goten, which allowed them to get much stronger than Future Trunks did.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#14366: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:54:25 PM

...

So, Buu absorbing a base state saiyan would be less efficient than him absorbing that same individual in super saiyan state?

Im sorry, but I cannot agree with that.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14367: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:55:53 PM

[up][up]Your opinion is your opinion, I just want you to know that most of the internet thinks otherwise.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14368: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:57:21 PM

[up][up] why not? There's nothing to go against it. He specifically says he needs to absorb Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks to defeat Gohan.

[up] it's not that lopsided, there are many who rate the boys higher.

Also keep in mind that "the majority" is made up of a sugnificant number of people who don't have a hardcore understanding of the source material, which leads to many misconceptions.

Agreeing with the majority is not significant.

edited 26th Sep '15 4:59:14 PM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14369: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:57:37 PM

[up][up][up]Yes. Base states do tend to be weaker than transformations. Buu reverted to a weaker form when the fusion wore off didn't he?

edited 26th Sep '15 4:57:46 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#14370: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:59:11 PM

Fusion has a set time limit, Super Saiyan's only limit is how much you've mastered it.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14371: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:59:57 PM

A fused state is still not the same as a regular base form, as Buu found out the hard way.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#14372: Sep 26th 2015 at 5:06:34 PM

A fusion is a different individual than a base form. It is not a transformation, it is a different being made from two others with a time limit.

In other words, the highest power output Goten can pull off is not Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#14374: Sep 26th 2015 at 5:11:48 PM

Sees certain people posting multiple times. Sees the word "opinion". Checks the thread name. Checks the usernames again.

Reacts accordingly.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14375: Sep 26th 2015 at 5:11:51 PM

[up][up][up]No, that would be the Super Saiyan form. Goten and Trunks are in base after the fusion ends, leaving them weaker than Piccolo's base state.

edited 26th Sep '15 5:11:58 PM by VeryMelon


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