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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#14176: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:20:37 PM

You can criticize people for whatever you want, big deal.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#14177: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:25:39 PM

And I still believe that you're wrong if you think Vegeta's reaction was due only to the gender reveal.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14178: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:36:41 PM

...It wouldn't be out of character if it was.

Which. Wouldn't make the joke good, but.

The idea that no member of the audience took it that way is ludicrous.

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#14179: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:40:32 PM

I preferred Dragon Ball, because shit actually happened. There were almost no filler episodes.

edited 17th Sep '15 5:40:43 PM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#14180: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:48:48 PM

They haven't done Dragon Ball.

At least not yet.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#14181: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:56:38 PM

Dodoria looks like a pink tumor with a face. "Gross" is the nicest way to describe it.

Okay, lets me rephrase: I felt that the punch line was "Dodoria being a woman is gross", and that is awful. Sure, Dodoria appearance might be gross, but that doesn't have shit to do with her gender.

The main problem with that recurring joke is that I felt we are meant to agree with Vegeta and that simply doesn't sit right to me. Vegeta often voices his horrible horrible opinions, but most of the time were are not meant to agree with him. He is the punchline, not whoever he is talking about.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14182: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:56:54 PM

Frankly, I think it's kinda funny and neat that someone can go from Auteur Theory to Public Enemy to DBZA Episode 1 and have it not be jarring.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#14183: Sep 17th 2015 at 5:58:15 PM

I felt that the punch was more "Dodoria talking about fertility and her species reproduction and whatnot is gross" but I can definitely see why it would not sit well with some.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#14184: Sep 17th 2015 at 6:25:29 PM

[up]Even if that is the case in that episode, which I am not sure I agree, it definitively not in the other times this came up. Those definitively felt like "Dodoria is a woman, lol" jokes.

[up][up]I kinda like how he is analyzing DBZA on its own, independent of the original show. Kinda make me wish I could see someone's reviewing/livebloging/commenting on it completely blind. Does DBZA actually stands on its own? I find kinda doubtful, but still, the storytelling is much more solid than I would expect.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#14185: Sep 17th 2015 at 7:56:43 PM

I think they're overanalyzing it a little.

Like they keep saying "I think they included this to [insert long explanation here]" when more often than not it's simply "they included this because it was funny".

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#14186: Sep 17th 2015 at 8:04:16 PM

[up]I find it doubtful. DBZA wouldn't have a coherent narrative if they didn't actually thought about what they were doing. It is not just jokes.

Also, Kaiserneko enjoy the reviews, so I would say there is truth in them.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#14187: Sep 17th 2015 at 8:29:25 PM

[up][up]Those aren't mutually exclusive.

And, I mean, a lot of those 'long explanations' were relatively basic narrative structure things, and other times it was stuff that was just straightforwardly accurate- Nappa and Vegeta on the bug people planet was absolutely darker humour than the serious had been previously. This was, in fact, probably not a coincidence.

Really, I find a lot of people underestimate the degree to which you can pick apart any piece of fiction over multiple paragraphs without saying anything that's not obviously in the work itself.

EndlessSea LEGENDARY GALE from oh no you don't Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LEGENDARY GALE
#14188: Sep 17th 2015 at 10:00:30 PM

[up][up] Kaiser tweeting about it is how I found the thing in the first place, for the record.

but HOW?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14189: Sep 18th 2015 at 3:43:46 AM

Overanalyzing isn't a thing.

Overanalyzing isn't possible.

"That Goku’s training session focuses on his questions about his father and people and relegates him learning the Kaio-ken and Spirit Bomb to a throwaway line is evidence that Team Four Star understand what truly matters in a story better than Toriyama, and you can fight me if you disagree."

But the difference between DBZA and other abridged series is that its creators choose to push themselves constantly, experimenting with sound design, comedic timing, and storytelling constantly to find what works, and what doesn’t.

And, I mean, a lot of those 'long explanations' were relatively basic narrative structure things

...Also, yeah, that.

edited 18th Sep '15 3:45:35 AM by unnoun

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#14190: Sep 18th 2015 at 4:03:43 AM

Wait wasn't Vegeta's reaction at first to Dodoria being a woman a simple "Huh what?"

And after he heard her life story and how she was the most fertile and got the offer to be her Husband did he get grossed out by it.

I think it went that way but I could be wrong.

Wait what kinda details would she include if she added Fertile to her list of things she was.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14191: Sep 18th 2015 at 4:17:01 AM

I like Kaiser's response.

That is an appropriate response to criticism.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14192: Sep 18th 2015 at 6:15:14 AM

Without actually reading this review, I find it very easy to come to the same conclusions about the Dodoria joke as the reviewer did.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#14193: Sep 18th 2015 at 7:05:15 AM

What I really like about that review is the effort it makes to understand TFS's intent, ultimately concluding that they most likely didn't mean it while still addressing the problematic undercurrent. Because looking back at it (Episode 15, btw), it's fairly vague beyond the "most beautiful and fertile woman" part and is wrapped up as quickly as it came. It's practically innocent compared to Zarbon's Running Gag of gay Double Entendres.

Kaiser's completely professional response is just as good.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#14194: Sep 18th 2015 at 9:31:26 AM

Okay, lets me rephrase: I felt that the punch line was "Dodoria being a woman is gross", and that is awful. Sure, Dodoria appearance might be gross, but that doesn't have shit to do with her gender.

The main problem with that recurring joke is that I felt we are meant to agree with Vegeta and that simply doesn't sit right to me. Vegeta often voices his horrible horrible opinions, but most of the time were are not meant to agree with him. He is the punchline, not whoever he is talking about.

I think I get it. It's similar to Vegeta's "No homo" as he kills Zarbon. Conflating Vegeta's horrible opinions with a moment where Vegeta is triumphantly awesome creates the impression that the opinions Vegeta is voicing are in the right.

By contrast, when he called Android 18 a washing machine "because you're a woman" and subsequently referred to her as a smug cunt, this is punctuated not by Vegeta triumphantly blowing her away and going, "Amirite guys? F*ck women!" but by Vegeta having his arm broken and being left battered and humiliated in the dirt.

Vegeta feels like he's supposed to be right in his hateful comments toward Dodoria and Zarbon because he punctuates them by winning the fight.

However, I think there's another distinction that's important to keep in mind here: at this point in the story, Vegeta is still a villain, just as much so as Dodoria and Zarbon. Frieza frequently does the same thing, spouting hateful rhetoric as he effortlessly destroys his enemies, but it doesn't feel like we're meant to side with Frieza because he is unambiguously the villain.

So...it's complicated.

edited 18th Sep '15 9:32:47 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#14195: Sep 18th 2015 at 9:49:14 AM

[up]That is true. I don't think it was intentional from TFS to punch down with those jokes, but I still felt uncomfortable with them, which means the joke is completely lost.

I will say, though, at last Zarbon made clear he wasn't gay. Which means Vegeta (and Freeza) constantly insisting he is one makes them assholes by default and I don't feel I was meant to agree. Compare to the early "Ten and Chaos are gay" jokes, which I still find cringe worthy as I don't have any reason to believe Yamcha was wrong about their relationship.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#14196: Sep 18th 2015 at 9:51:36 AM

Zarbon said it best in the DBZ Abriged Kai "Maybe I'm gay, or maybe sterotypes are bullshit."

And they seemed to have ditched the gay jokes with Tien and Chiaotzu in favor of a more parent-child role.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#14197: Sep 18th 2015 at 9:56:41 AM

That Frieza got the last word on Zarbon's sexuality bothers me.

Not to mention I lost Dodoria and Zarbon, the latter of whom spent 400 credits making long-distance calls to his girlfriend, WHO, I AM CONVINCED, IS NAMED CHUCK!!

If that had just been a throwaway about Frieza being skeptical of the existence of Zarbon's girlfriend, Zarbon's insistence of heterosexuality would override it, but Frieza names the person he thinks Zarbon's girlfriend is. This suggests he's not just pulling accusations out of his ass but actually has at least some level of specific knowledge as to who Zarbon was making all those phone calls to.

edited 18th Sep '15 9:58:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14198: Sep 18th 2015 at 9:59:42 AM

I didn't get that impression. I thought Freeza was throwing out a random male name, just to show he doubts Zarbon's partner is female.

The line doesn't suggest familiarity with "Chuck" at all.

That said, I have felt the same way with a few of these jokes being uncomfortable.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#14199: Sep 18th 2015 at 10:00:14 AM

[up][up]I took as Freeza just making up on the spot a male name for Zarbon's girlfriend. But, yeah, the fact Zarbon wasn't there anymore to look baffled or confused about it makes the joke more uncomfortable.

[up][up][up]I loved that line.

edited 18th Sep '15 10:00:30 AM by Heatth

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#14200: Sep 18th 2015 at 10:42:39 AM

So... am I an ass for laughing at all of these jokes?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

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