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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#12851: Jul 7th 2015 at 12:24:44 AM

[up][up][up] Not really a good reason to destroy it in either case. Besides, just because he has the off switch doesn't mean he has a way to reactivate her.

[up] Because he was having difficulty controlling his creations. He originally put all his focus on power, made them uncontrollable, then started toning it down. But not enough.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#12852: Jul 7th 2015 at 7:47:10 AM

Krillin flies up to Trunks, Trunks says he didn't notice him, and Krillin says he affectionately refers to it as stealth mode. It was obvious to me it was a joke about how weak he is but a lot of people apparently didn't get it.

Same. It was a continuation of a series of gags about Krillin's low battle power, most notably when they were on Namek watching Dodoria kill Dende's family.

  • KRILLIN: Keep your power low, Gohan.
  • GOHAN: I'm trying, but I can't seem to get it as low as yours, Krillin.
  • KRILLIN: But I haven't even started—I mean, yeah! Like mine!

But for some reason, a lot of people thought Krillin was showing off some special ability he's developed to mask his power better than the other characters. It's not. Stealth Mode is his power naturally being so low as to be inconsequential at this point and thus easily ignored.

Less power=easier for Gero to control them, IIRC.

Why he didn't make himself as strong as 17 and 18 still isn't explained.

Why he didn't make himself as strong as 16 isn't explained.

The flaw in 16 is that he was deliberately designed to be a Gentle Giant and Gero doesn't want to risk losing him again.

The flaw in 17 and 18 is that they're unruly teenagers who refuse to be controlled.

Both of these flaws are personality-driven. There is no reason Gero would have to worry about Gero refusing to follow Gero's orders or not having the right personality to destroy Gero's enemies.

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12853: Jul 7th 2015 at 9:01:23 AM

Answer: Gero is an idiot.

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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#12854: Jul 7th 2015 at 9:13:04 AM

"Are you a android? Holy shit you're a android! How did you do that?"

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#12855: Jul 7th 2015 at 9:22:52 AM

I think the 19 and 20 models have the potential to become even stronger than 17 and 18 if they would just get the opportunity to absorb enough power. Also they have the power to nullify energy attacks. Unless, you know, someone rips their arms off.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#12856: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:10:27 AM

Really, he should've just given himself an infinite energy model as the base, with the arms of the absorption mode.

And the trucker hat, if he was still in that phase.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#12857: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:14:45 AM

As previously stated, Gero was an idiot.

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#12858: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:23:08 AM

The infinite energy generator generates infinite energy. What possible need for energy absorption would Gero have if he already had infinite energy? There is no amount of energy Gero could absorb that would trump "infinite."

The energy-absorption models have the same vulnerability as the infinite energy models: they exist within a body. 19 and 20 can absorb energy while 17 and 18 can generate infinite quantities of energy, but energy is not durability. Energy will not put your arms back on when they've been torn off. Energy will not reattach your severed head to its spinal column.

The operator is the weak point in both the energy absorption models and the infinite energy models. Redundantly packing the absorption ability on top of the infinite energy would not change that.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#12859: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:31:35 AM

"What possible need"?

How about don't get hurt?

Also, the infinite energy generator just means they won't run out of energy. They don't constantly have infinite energy.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#12860: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:47:20 AM

17 and 18 have barriers for that. They don't need to absorb attacks like the Kamehameha or Hellzone Grenade - the latter of which would have murdered an energy absorption model, as they only had two hands to absorb with while the blasts came in from every direction at once. They can use their infinite generators to put up an energy shield until the attack ends.

edited 7th Jul '15 10:47:51 AM by TobiasDrake

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#12861: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:47:29 AM

Energy absorption isn't redundant because draining your opponent of power is still a very useful ability.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#12862: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:48:03 AM

I wonder if the infinite energy models could maintain the force field while flying and doing other stuff.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12863: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:48:28 AM

Wouldn't an energy absorption infinite energy android basically be imperfect Cell?

Or Super 17, but fuck GT.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#12864: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:49:27 AM

No?

Cell can tire. That's why he ate a bean without hesitation.

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#12865: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:50:17 AM

Draining your enemy of power requires you to get within melee range of the enemy. Any enemy worth draining of power is an enemy you don't want to be in melee range of. Vegeta has demonstrated the flaw in this.

19 and 20's energy absorption nodes are a cool idea in theory but substantially flawed in practice. Infinite energy is superior in all ways.

edited 7th Jul '15 10:51:33 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12866: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:55:38 AM

I mean, it might have helped Cell against that Kamehameha from Gohan.

Or Kid Buu from the Spirit Bomb.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#12867: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:55:40 AM

Putting the gems on your hands is the flawed part. The obvious next step would be an android with absorption gems studding every available surface. Go ahead and try to grab my arms. That's where gems AA 56 - AAA 8 are located! Or fire a KI blast. I'll eat it by head butting the beam!

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12868: Jul 7th 2015 at 10:56:16 AM

Exactly.

...Man if Bulma put those things in the gravity chamber she could probably go green.

If Bulma had gotten the blueprints for 19 and 20 and figured out how the energy thing worked. Like, I'm not sure whether Gohan and Vegeta could power the entire planet themselves, but damn.

edited 7th Jul '15 11:00:38 AM by unnoun

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#12869: Jul 7th 2015 at 11:25:23 AM

The infinite energy generator generates infinite energy. What possible need for energy absorption would Gero have if he already had infinite energy? There is no amount of energy Gero could absorb that would trump "infinite."

Well, you could argue that absorbing energy allow you to get the energy faster. Sure, generating infinite energy is awesome, but in a real fight it might not be as useful if you generate them too slowly. Absorbing energy allow to get said energy in large chunks.

That said, #17 and 18 clearly generated fast enough. And they explicitly said that their model was more powerful than 19's and 20's. So, yeah, "Gero is an idiot" is the only thing I've got.

The turth, of course, is that Toriyama simply didn't think hard enough on these details.

The energy-absorption models have the same vulnerability as the infinite energy models: they exist within a body. 19 and 20 can absorb energy while 17 and 18 can generate infinite quantities of energy, but energy is not durability. Energy will not put your arms back on when they've been torn off. Energy will not reattach your severed head to its spinal column.

There is also the question they apparently can store/utilize only so much. It is not like 16-18 could generate infinitely powerful ki blasts or become infinitely strong. The "infinite" part is more about their ability to fight full strength forever (which is still great).

Draining your enemy of power requires you to get within melee range of the enemy. Any enemy worth draining of power is an enemy you don't want to be in melee range of. Vegeta has demonstrated the flaw in this.

Being able to drain energy attacks is useful as well. "Having barriers" is not enough if the enemy is that much stronger as, as I've said, the androids can only utilize so much energy, so the barriers too have an upper limit. 19 and 20 demonstrated they could absorb completely blasts even from people much more powerful than them, so that is an useful ability regardless.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#12870: Jul 7th 2015 at 11:30:47 AM

Super 17 was both an infinite-energy and absorption model. It worked pretty well for him, tanking a few Kamehamehas made him strong enough to kick Super Saiyan 4 Goku's ass.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12872: Jul 7th 2015 at 11:43:27 AM

I mean, yeah, 17 and 18 do seem to have a cap of how much energy they can output at a time.

Being able to charge an attack forever would be cool, but alas.

edited 7th Jul '15 11:44:27 AM by unnoun

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#12873: Jul 7th 2015 at 11:54:11 AM

Could possibly do something like the Final Flash, where you overcharge a beam before firing it. Would probably take a while, though.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12874: Jul 7th 2015 at 12:05:51 PM

Could 18 learn the Kamehameha or Kaioken?

...I'm imagining Krillin recruiting his family into the Neo Turtle School at first because he doesn't know anyone else.

You cannot tell me that there is a three year old alive that wouldn't want to be able to shoot lasers out of their eyes. Or hands. Or in general.

This is probably how training would go.

edited 7th Jul '15 12:08:10 PM by unnoun

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#12875: Jul 7th 2015 at 12:07:37 PM

Everyone and their mom can do the Kamehameha. I see no reason 18 can't.

Also that's adorable.

Oh really when?

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