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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11326: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:32:50 PM

Except when Fat Buu got really mad like the fight with Gohan because shit happened then.

I mean, theoretically, Fat Buu and Super Buu have the same power reserves, and are made of the same overall components, but Super Buu can use more of it more of the time.

edited 28th Apr '15 7:33:47 PM by unnoun

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#11327: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:37:34 PM

Well Kid Buu was smacking around the Fat Buu who got separated from him, but I think that version is weaker than the original.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11328: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:39:05 PM

Well, yeah, because separation does that.

I mean, when King Piccolo and Kami separated.

They went from being around Final Form Frieza/Super Saiyan levels of power to. To like a seventh of Raditz.

...Of course, Super Buu is apparently still weaker than Buff Buu. And the Grand Supreme Kai having a negative power level would be ridiculous, so in theory Super Buu still had even more potential power he couldn't access just because of his personality and that damned Kai morality infecting him.

edited 29th Apr '15 2:22:35 AM by unnoun

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
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#11329: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:49:59 PM

Cell required a team effort to take down in the end - not just the Father-Son KHH, but the rest of the cast distracting him. I guess that counts as the guy with the highest power level losing, right?

Super Buu was killed by internal sabotage, too, and the Dpirit Bomb that iced Kid Buu was the definition of a team effort that needed Vegeta running interference to get off the ground.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#11330: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:02:47 PM

Is the Father-Son Kamehameha actually special in terms of power or is it just a thing that the games have made more special than it actually is?

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#11331: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:03:49 PM

And then it almost failed because Buu overpowered Goku. Goku needed to get his power level back up to force the bomb down Buu's throat.

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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
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#11332: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:06:47 PM

[up][up]It's just symbolic nonsense. Goku was with him in spirit, but it was completely Gohan.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#11333: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:09:34 PM

I think the Budokai games (or at least 3) explicitly say that the Super Kamehameha, Adult Gohan's ultimate, is the same move as the Father-Son one, just without Goku cheering him on, and also fired at an angle I guess.

So basically, it's just a big Kamehameha, and any Goku involvement is symbolism.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11334: Apr 29th 2015 at 7:36:58 AM

Vegeta not having skill: did anyone even see his second fight with Zarbon or his fight with Recoome? Vegeta didn't get strong by training: he got strong by fighting for his life. Sure, he might not have the technical skills that Goku gained (which was never a focus in this show; power is and always has been what's the focus), but he has the battle skills you gain from fighting for your life on a daily basis.

No, he got strong by losing fights for his life and abusing his Saiyan racial traits. Getting your ass kicked does not have very high requirements for skill or tactical prowess.

And Vegeta was not born obscenely powerful. He said he surpassed his father as a child, which means he got stronger than him... which means he wasn't born stronger than him.

Most people are more powerful as an adult than they were as an infant.

And there's no reason to think that unless he was also born with a mastery of ki blasts. He had to have trained like everyone else. His gains may have been superior to others is all.

Like how Goku had to train for fifty years to master the Kamehameha, as opposed to just being like "I can do that too!" and firing one off seconds after witnessing it?

And there's no reason to assume Vegeta's ability to just replicate what he sees other people do is any less than Goku's given that he up and taught himself to sense ki after finding out that was a thing, without so much as a single clue as to how it's done.

If anything, Vegeta's ability to crib others' moves on sight is greater than Goku's as a product of his natural talent, given that Goku required formal training from Mr. Popo to learn ki detection, while Vegeta taught it to himself while half-conscious in a healing pod.

Has there EVER been a fight in Dragonball where the person with the highest power level DIDN'T win? Heck, as far as I remember skill and technique only ever come into play at all when the two fighters are nearly the same power level. Unless you count people using the solar flare. Power levels may be bullshit, but they are still the most important thing in the world.

As others have noted, Raditz and Kid Buu were defeated by weaker foes. Additionally, Piccolo was almost Nappa's equal. When you take into consideration all the other high powers fighting him simultaneously, Nappa was sorely outclassed when he murdered half the cast and curbstomped the other half through sheer skill and mental discipline.

I dunno about weakest, I mean he was still stronger than Fat Buu right?

I feel like he was.

Yep. Fat Buu < Pure Buu < Super Buu.

edited 29th Apr '15 7:42:37 AM by TobiasDrake

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GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#11335: Apr 29th 2015 at 7:44:30 AM

Kid Buu was weaker, but he was more like a force of nature or something, I forget the whole comparison.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11336: Apr 29th 2015 at 7:47:12 AM

Pure Buu is weaker but more dangerous because he is effectively a mindless force of annihilation. Super Buu had a personality. He was arrogant. Cocky. Felt fear and loathing and anticipation. He could be talked to, goaded, dared. He was susceptible to the emotional manipulation that made his near-defeat possible.

Pure Buu demonstrated the difference when the first thing he did upon being purified was destroy the Earth. No fight, no threats, no ego. F*ck this planet, boom.

Super Buu wanted an awesome fight. Pure Buu just wants to destroy.

edited 29th Apr '15 7:47:51 AM by TobiasDrake

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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
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#11337: Apr 29th 2015 at 7:47:39 AM

Kid Buu was weaker than Super Buu but Kid Buu couldn't be bartered with or stalled or perform any sort of higher reasoning. Which makes him much more dangerous.

At least Super Buu was actually intelligent and could be talked to and reasoned with. Kid Buu just destroys. [nja]

edited 29th Apr '15 7:47:52 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#11338: Apr 29th 2015 at 8:12:41 AM

speaking of Broly,wonder how'll they'll do Goku's Deadly Dodging . [lol]

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11339: Apr 29th 2015 at 10:25:55 AM

So why didn't Kid Buu just blow up the Kai planet?

Why did he go to Goku and Vegeta when they powered up?

...Why did he bother to dance and brag and make fun of and insult people?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#11340: Apr 29th 2015 at 10:31:25 AM

'Cause he's fickle and immature.

He doesn't always go immediately for the planet burst, but if he decides that's what he's doing you can't stop him. I wouldn't necessarily consider him significantly more pragmatic than Super, but he's much more impulsive.

edited 29th Apr '15 10:32:35 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#11341: Apr 29th 2015 at 10:49:29 AM

Pretty sure it's filler but one of the biggest "oh shit" moments in the series was when Kid Buu teleported to otherworld. The idea that not even the dead were safe from this evil was terrifying.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#11342: Apr 29th 2015 at 11:25:31 AM

Nappa was sorely outclassed when he murdered half the cast and curbstomped the other half through sheer skill and mental discipline

To be fair, Nappa also set the precedent that "no matter how many people rush them at the same time or whatever innovative techniques are used against them, a character who is more powerful can never be seriously harmed except by a power much greater than themselves" which followed the series all the way until the end, getting more blatant as the series went on.

One of these days I'm going to visualize that general trope well enough to YKTTW it...

edited 29th Apr '15 11:27:02 AM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11343: Apr 29th 2015 at 1:20:32 PM

Sure, but Vegeta immediately violated that precedent afterwards when he was overcome by four combatants weaker than him.

As did Cell and Majin Buu. Frieza was the only major villain whose defeat was as simple as "The stronger guy wins!" and even that was only after every gun in Chekhov's Armory had failed.

edited 29th Apr '15 1:22:08 PM by TobiasDrake

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11345: Apr 29th 2015 at 2:59:22 PM

@unnoun Because Pure Boo isn't really that dangerous. Hell, he fell asleep on the Kaioshin planet and the fight only happened because Goku had hurt feelings and woke him up.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11346: Apr 29th 2015 at 3:12:47 PM

Goku never misses an opportunity to remind us that his innocence and simplicity is a danger to himself and others.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#11348: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:30:51 PM

Even a magical being with infinite stamina has finite stamina.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#11349: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:34:05 PM

He's no android.

I have a message from another time...
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#11350: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:46:59 PM

Andro-: a Greek prefix meaning man
-oid: a suffix meaning "resembling" or "like", but implying incompleteness or imperfect resemblance.

So technically Buu is an android since he resembles a man but isn't. tongue

edited 29th Apr '15 6:47:40 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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