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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#11026: Apr 15th 2015 at 3:03:21 PM

We do? I really don't see too many that fit that mold.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#11027: Apr 15th 2015 at 3:06:36 PM

I have kind of an odd question. Let's say during the ten days they were waiting for the Cell games to start someone decided to start charging an attack. Like, if Krillin decided to charge an attack for ten days would that be enough to kill Cell? What if Piccolo tried it?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#11028: Apr 15th 2015 at 3:09:54 PM

On the whole subject of 'hating dragonball', lets just say we are all Tsundere about it. grin

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#11029: Apr 15th 2015 at 3:46:08 PM

[up][up] They wouldn't even need that. Vegeta's Final Flash was powerful enough to destroy Perfect Cell. He'd just dodge the attack.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#11030: Apr 15th 2015 at 4:25:44 PM

We have no idea what the actual difference between Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan is.

The way I saw it:

Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu >= SS 3 Gotenks > SS 3 Goku = Kid Buu > Majin Buu > SS 2 Goku = Majin Vegeta

edited 15th Apr '15 4:27:19 PM by Lionheart0

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11031: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:22:39 PM

Ehhhhhhhhh I would actually say it's unbelievably awful how Toriyama had them act in that fight so please don't try to speak for all of us.

@Enlong I was talking about earlier in the arc. Goku has Super Saiyan 3 stashed away in his butt, and keeps complaining about how he can't fuse with Gohan or Vegeta to beat Boo. He reveals Super Saiyan 3 would've totally killed Boo if he'd fought seriously.

Numeric measurements for battle powers went away but the general tiering logic never did since it was there from the start of the series.

edited 15th Apr '15 7:25:49 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#11032: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:33:03 PM

All Toriyama had to do was have Goku reveal that he knew using SSJ 3 would burn up his time on earth, hence why he held it back against both Vegeta and Buu.

Like, he knew he could do it, but he was unsure how much time it would take up, and he was afraid he'd run out of gas while doing it.

But that would make sense apparently.

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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#11033: Apr 15th 2015 at 8:34:50 PM

Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks would be on par with Fat Buu, or so everybody said upon the first sucessful fusion in said state. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, after 2 weeks in the Hypobaric Pine Chamber (god bless you Abridged!Goku) is about on par with Super Buu, even maybe a little stronger.

Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Super Buu, but weaker than Buutenks. So he isn't twice as strong as either of them.

So, if Super Saiyan 3 is 8 times Super Saiyan 1, and that applies to fusions as well, and knowing power levels are bullshit, Ultimate Gohan is about an order of magnitude above SSJ 3 Goku.

And the same would apply to Super Buu compared to Fat and Kid Buu.

So yeah, not a good idea to apply logic to that.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11034: Apr 15th 2015 at 9:18:32 PM

I think it's weird that apparently Buff Buu is still stronger than Super Buu.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11035: Apr 15th 2015 at 10:53:03 PM

Super Saiyan Gotenks isn't necessarily on par with Fat Boo.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#11036: Apr 15th 2015 at 11:08:29 PM

Especially when I remember him immediately going to fight Fat Buu and getting his ass kicked.

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qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#11037: Apr 16th 2015 at 12:08:52 AM

That was Base state not SSJ Gotenks.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#11038: Apr 16th 2015 at 12:19:47 AM

so,is fusion a x2 boost?cause it seems a bit above that.

granted,SSJ 2 is also technically a x2 boost,and it allowed Gohan to stomp Cell.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11039: Apr 16th 2015 at 12:45:50 AM

I think it's above that, because 2x would make Gotenks around the adult Saiyans or something, whereas he's noticeably stronger.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#11040: Apr 16th 2015 at 12:57:25 AM

oh yeah,if Zenkais stop after SSJ,does this mean Trunks and Goten were just born with a high BP for the SSJ boost to pay off?

Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#11041: Apr 16th 2015 at 1:29:28 AM

I'd say Gotenks was abover Super Buu at least

since by the end of their fight, Buu was the clear loser and only survived because Gotenks SSJ 3 boost ran out

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11042: Apr 16th 2015 at 2:44:35 AM

[up][up] nope. They're strong because they've always fought each other as Super Saiyans and mastered the form doing so.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11043: Apr 16th 2015 at 7:28:24 AM

I'd say Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks isn't "about" Super Buu's level, but actually far beyond it. Their fight was a one-sided curbstomp; there's really no question they would have been able to destroy Super Buu had Super Saiyan 3 not drained their fusion at an accelerated pace and kicked them out of the fusion in only five of the allotted thirty minutes - which is even more horrifically draining of their time, when you consider that most of that time was wasted on their drama antics rather than Super Saiyan 3. They got maybe a minute in the form, tops.

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#11044: Apr 16th 2015 at 9:11:40 AM

so,how much of a power difference do you guys think constitutes an equal-but-losing fight?

going by the Freeza-Goku fight,a discarding his energy bleeding,a difference of 1.25x seems pretty significant.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11045: Apr 16th 2015 at 9:17:49 AM

It's hard to say because of how many other factors there are.

Piccolo was 87.5% Nappa's battle power and still managed to get wrecked despite having Krillin to back him up due to Nappa's formidable skill, experience, and intense mental disciplineHEY .

Meanwhile, Yajirobe of all people was able to bring down Oozaru Vegeta - who wasn't at 100% due to having to invoke the False Moon instead of transforming naturally, but as 100% is 180,000LISTEN , even 40% would be pretty insurmountable as far as any of our protagonists are concerned.

And then there's special techniques like Captain Ginyu's Body Change, which allowed him to defeat Goku even though he was barely 2/3 Goku's battle power.

Battle power is not nothing, not by a long shot, but it isn't everything either.

edited 16th Apr '15 9:19:10 AM by TobiasDrake

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#11046: Apr 16th 2015 at 9:29:57 AM

i'd put the Body Change in the same Special Trait category as Guldo's tech and magic in general.They generally ignore power levels,unless you can kick them back.Somehow.

Dragon_Ranger Since: Jan, 2010
#11047: Apr 16th 2015 at 9:45:54 AM

When you can freeze time by holding your breath, there's not a whole lot anyone can do to stop you.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#11048: Apr 16th 2015 at 10:10:16 AM

Guldo should really have invested in a good sharp knife.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#11049: Apr 16th 2015 at 10:11:28 AM

I don't think it would have helped him that much, especially when he can rip trees out of the ground with his TK and impale people with those.

His mistake was trying to be self-sufficient as a fighter. Tien and Chiaotzu had this down at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai; Chiaotzu paralyzes folks while Tien moves in for the kill. Guldo is like an even more powerful version of Chiaotzu, but without the self-awareness to be a Support Character.

edited 16th Apr '15 10:13:29 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Dragon_Ranger Since: Jan, 2010
#11050: Apr 16th 2015 at 10:22:36 AM

That's why Xenoverse is amazing, because that's exactly what Guldo does to allow Ginyu to properly body-change with Goku. Heck, the game seems to paint him as someone who constantly avoids fights if the dialogue between the mooks in Freeza's ship is any indication.


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