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Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#10926: Apr 13th 2015 at 1:55:35 PM

do we know that Vegeta hasn't?

all he ever says about his childhood is that he surpassed his father when he was just a kid

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#10927: Apr 13th 2015 at 1:57:19 PM

And everything about the way Vegeta fights screams that he has the technique of an anvil.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#10928: Apr 13th 2015 at 2:00:02 PM

Yes, Vegeta surpassed King Vegeta at a very young age, because Vegeta - like most of Dragon Ball's villains - was just born special and didn't have to put much effort into being the toughest kid on the block. Any power gains he experienced up to and including his time on Namek - before Goku's gains humiliated him into actually taking the time to build his power - were zenkais he got off the battlefield.

He's battle-hardened, not trained, and he fights with the skill and subtlety of a sledgehammer; Vegeta is all about "My number is higher than your number, erego I WIN, MOTHERF*CKER!!!"

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#10929: Apr 13th 2015 at 4:40:06 PM

DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!

Of course, they may suggest that Popo was the one who trained Whis. But I doubt they'd let the joke go on that far. Popo is a localized phenomenon.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10930: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:20:30 PM

Didn't DBZA already say Popo killed the dinosaurs or something?

Whoever killed the dinosaurs in the world of Dragon Ball must of done a really shitty job considering they're still around.

Seriously, one of them entered a tournament.

Didn't Beerus say something to effect of Vegeta actually being the best fighter and having the best techniques but just plain not having enough raw power to beat him or say Goku?

But Vegeta only actually hits anything when he wastes a lot of energy on making the biggest explosion he can!

I mean. In Battle of Gods he only fires one energy blast at Beerus, into Beerus's chest at point blank.

Of course, they may suggest that Popo was the one who trained Whis. But I doubt they'd let the joke go on that far. Popo is a localized phenomenon.

Side-note, it was implied in Mr. Popo's introduction in this series that he's the only person to have run down Snake Way before.

But King Kai doesn't seem to know him.

So did he just run all that way for fun?

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#10931: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:21:34 PM

The King Kai we see wasn't the first King Kai for this quadrant.

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#10933: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:25:59 PM

You're too slow. C'mon, step it up.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10934: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:28:36 PM

I didn't say I was the first person to post it.

We were talking about other things, and someone that skipped to this page might have missed it.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
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#10935: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:30:24 PM

The Vegeta/Goku dynamic was originally Vegeta as the talented one, yes.

And then, around Namek, they kind of flipped. To the point that, by the Buu saga, Vegeta was despairing of ever closing the gap created by Goku's immense talent.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10936: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:33:21 PM

Vegeta actually hitting things he's aiming at is weird and I'm not sure I like it.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#10937: Apr 13th 2015 at 5:38:19 PM

The weirdest thing about Popo is that when he's first introduced he effortless beat the guy who beat Piccolo, then says that Kami is even stronger than he is. And wasn't Kami as strong as King Piccolo? So that means: King Piccolo < Goku < Popo < Kami = Piccolo?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#10938: Apr 13th 2015 at 6:03:36 PM

Nope, from what I understand Kami was actually way more powerful than Piccolo.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#10939: Apr 13th 2015 at 6:04:34 PM

Popo could have just been being modest.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#10940: Apr 13th 2015 at 7:05:45 PM

Man I just realized Xenoverse is literally just really shitty fanfiction.

And I don't care.

Oh really when?
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#10941: Apr 13th 2015 at 7:08:06 PM

It's no better or worse than canon, really. As evident by the main thread, there's a lot wrong with Dragon Ball. But we love it anyway.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10943: Apr 13th 2015 at 10:41:43 PM

The original series is literally shitty Journey to the West fanfiction.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#10944: Apr 14th 2015 at 12:54:04 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Kami is also really really old, his advanced age probably reduced his power or endurance by a lot.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10945: Apr 14th 2015 at 3:16:52 AM

Nah, that's completely wrong about Vegeta. He uses just as much strategy as anyone, which is admittedly not a whole lot, but he doesn't particularly rely on it less than others.

"Gigantic flashy moves" are not limited to Vegeta and not an inherently bad move. This is primarily because ki does not work like real life energy, and thin beams are not any more efficient or powerful than wide blasts. Charging up your power also increases the effectiveness of the technique exponentially - "gigantic flashy move" was the only thing Goku could do to significantly damage Cell in their fight, and Piccolo could conserve his power against Raditz all day and just end up getting killed. The only real problem is if it misses, which is why Vegeta taunts Cell into taking his all-or-nothing attack and does far better than he did without the flashy moves.

Yeah, if Dragon Ball was more into Hard Sci Fi, efficiency would rule the day. We've been over this before, and I believe we agreed that this just didn't apply to Dragon Ball.

Also for all of Goku's supposed skill, he's lost every fight he's been in where his opponent is stronger than him.

Any comparison of skill is almost entirely fan invention, because the series doesn't care to make those comparisons and doesn't offer enough consistent information to support them.

Oh, and on Raditz, I think this is more likely to be a disagreement with the official battle powers. For starters, they say the Saibaimen are exactly equal to Raditz - so 1,200. That's consistent with Vegeta's 15 Raditz. That makes Nappa's 5 Raditz equal to 6,000 which sounds like the level someone might put him if they believe his performance dictates he be higher than his official 4,000.

edited 14th Apr '15 3:22:03 AM by Saiga

Dragon_Ranger Since: Jan, 2010
#10946: Apr 14th 2015 at 3:43:29 AM

I find it interesting that, after finally putting aside his rivalry with Goku, Revival F has Vegeta and Goku finally be equal in power.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10947: Apr 14th 2015 at 3:48:54 AM

They were equal in base / Super Saiyan / Super Saiyan 2 in the Boo arc, after Vegeta's potential unlock. Super Saiyan 3 was retconned in.

I consider this similar to GT, which gave both Goku and Vegeta the highest Saiyan form exclusively and had them equal.

Well, the status quo has always been "Goku & Vegeta, SAIYAN PRIDE" since Gohan got absorbed. It's not very surprising. Even Oob couldn't compete with that.

edited 14th Apr '15 3:49:10 AM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#10948: Apr 14th 2015 at 4:18:45 AM

[up] I do believe that you're using the word "retcon" quite wrongly.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10949: Apr 14th 2015 at 4:24:23 AM

Well you'd be wrong. Goku says multiple times Super Saiyan 2 is his full power, and that there is absolutely nothing he has over Vegeta, and then gives no explanation for these statements when he suddenly stands up and goes "wait here's Super Saiyan 3 I had the whole time".

It can't even be covered up by saying he didn't want to beat Boo, because he was trying to think of a way he could fuse with Gohan or Vegeta to defeat Boo. His decision to leave it to the kids didn't come up until Popo actually gave him the idea of teaching fusion to the kids, leaving absolutely no reason he didn't mention Super Saiyan 3 and clearly contradicting everything he did prior to revealing it.

edited 14th Apr '15 5:19:39 AM by Saiga

Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#10950: Apr 14th 2015 at 5:00:17 AM

well the few times Goku did try to be tactical (distracting freeza with underwater blasts, teleporting mid kamehameha) it was just no-sold.


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