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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10776: Apr 10th 2015 at 8:45:30 AM

A few things:

Vegeta, at the time he was disgustedly criticizing Gohan's performance against Dabura - who is equal to Perfect Cell - could only become a Super Saiyan 1. Thus, we can conclude that 100 Gohans is weaker than 50 Vegetas, or that Gohan is at most half of Vegeta and Goku's battle power.

Vegeta could in fact become a Super Saiyan 2 at this stage, and Gohan was most likely a Super Saiyan 1 for that fight. It is very unlikely that Gohan is half of Vegeta/Goku's power because Goku says Gohan is close enough to his power to fuse with him.

Also, if you consider the amount of energy to revive Boo to be equal to his battle power, then he'd only be just over twice Gohan's strength, and he is still way too strong for Goku and Vegeta to beat.

It should be noted that there is no guarantee it would do that for others; Krillin, for example, probably wouldn't rise to 60 million after getting his power unlocked by Old Kai, because it's not a static multiplier but a potential unlock. Still, that's damn impressive.

Well, that and Kuririn doesn't have Super Saiyan forms. Gohan's base took on Super Saiyan traits after the ritual, and the power he is wielding is likely drawing on his Super Saiyan power without the transformations.

So I think for non-transforming races it would be much less effective, even before you take into consideration differences in dormant power. Just in the context of the manga Gohan should be the one who gets the most out of the ritual... well except for Vegetto maybe? Though Vegetto may have already realized most of his potential.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#10777: Apr 10th 2015 at 9:00:02 AM

Where is it indicated Vegeta could become a Super Saiyan 2 before the Majin upgrade?

The first time he ever takes on the Super Saiyan 2 form under his own power is when he fights Super Buu, shortly before fusing with Goku to form Vegetto.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#10778: Apr 10th 2015 at 9:06:40 AM

[up]I think Vegeta himself implied as much when Gohan approached him about entering the tournament. He made a point about how, while Gohan was stronger than him during the Cell Saga, he's caught up.

Of course, that may be a dub thing.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#10779: Apr 10th 2015 at 9:23:37 AM

Catching up to Gohan and Super Perfect Cell doesn't necessarily mean he can become a Super Saiyan 2, especially since Gohan's power has waned in the last seven years.

edited 10th Apr '15 9:23:48 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#10780: Apr 10th 2015 at 9:38:57 AM

He outright says he decided Goku was more suited to being the hero. It's probably because Gohan cared about justice and helping people, while Toriyama made Goku because he wanted a selfish hero.

So in other words, he wasted all of our time building up Gohan just to toss him under the bus at the end?

Wow. What a great move.

One Strip! One Strip!
Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#10781: Apr 10th 2015 at 10:47:20 AM

I feel like Vegeta would have been more outraged at finding out that goku had reached the SSJ 2 stage, if he had not reached that stage yet himself

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#10782: Apr 10th 2015 at 11:40:31 AM

He had.

The first time Goku assumed the Super Saiyan 2 transformation onscreen was to match Vegeta's Majin boost. He achieved it in the afterlife, but Vegeta never saw him do it until Vegeta had already allowed Babidi to awaken his power.

edited 10th Apr '15 11:42:13 AM by TobiasDrake

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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#10783: Apr 10th 2015 at 12:47:33 PM

The fact that Vegeta thought he was stronger than Cell Games Gohan should be enough to make you go "Hey, he must have Super Saiyan 2."

Also, judging by his aura in the manga, he's a Super Saiyan 2. It's more violent and jagged, and contains bolts of lightning-like energy. These signs are consistently present in the manga. See his fight with Pure Buu.

Finally, the Daizenshuu says Gohan achieved the form from Cell, while Vegeta and Goku did so through harsh training.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10784: Apr 10th 2015 at 2:16:58 PM

I'm fairly sure harsh training and Majin powerups are different things.

I mean, man, imagine if Vegeta had trained for four months.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#10785: Apr 10th 2015 at 2:28:56 PM

I like that training for four months have become the DBZ version of Batman's Prep Time.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10786: Apr 10th 2015 at 2:38:11 PM

It's pretty great.

...What's not so great is the way that TFS uploads their TFS Classic shit on Fridays instead of things I actually kinda want to see like Xenoverse, or one of their in-character things.

Mass Effect 3 is probably my favorite of their multiplayer things, and. I mean, dammit, Xenoverse was getting to the good part!

So Kaiser answered my question.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#10787: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:06:03 PM

Also, judging by his aura in the manga, he's a Super Saiyan 2. It's more violent and jagged, and contains bolts of lightning-like energy. These signs are consistently present in the manga. See his fight with Pure Buu.

He fought Pure Buu long after his Majin boost, which I've been asserting is when he achieved Super Saiyan 2.

The fact that Vegeta thought he was stronger than Cell Games Gohan should be enough to make you go "Hey, he must have Super Saiyan 2."

Why? He's been training in a Gravity Chamber for seven years, and the gap between Gohan and Vegeta's Base wasn't that much. Gohan was noticeably stronger, but given the kind of increases we've seen Gravity Training produce in the past, seven years is plenty of time to triple or quadruple his battle power, which is likely all it would take to put his Super Saiyan form above Gohan's Super Saiyan 2.

Super Saiyan 2 is not a level of power. It's a multiplier, and considering the kind of gains these characters have received in the past, is "Vegeta increased his battle power 4x over the course of seven years" really so unthinkable?

edited 10th Apr '15 3:08:28 PM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10788: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:06:48 PM

I thought he gave up on training after Cell.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10789: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:14:38 PM

Not only do we have guides saying he got the form by training, there's also the fact that Gohan is close enough to Goku to fuse which means he's probably not under half their strength. Especially since he can fight a Cell-level opponent with just Super Saiyan 1, and Goku/Vegeta were only barely stronger than Cell Games Gohan. There's also various minor lines to imply he had it.

There's no real reason to think it was Babidi's work. When Babidi enslaves him and powers him up, he's just a Super Saiyan 1. He later transforms into a Super Saiyan 2 in response to Goku doing so, and I don't think Babidi could give him the form without him actually transforming because that's not how reaching new Super Saiyan forms has worked before.

[up][up] yes, because Goku barely surpassed Gohan in that time and the gravity room is an obsolete training method at that stage. He didn't benefit a whole lot from it in the 3 years preparing for the Androids and hit a wall that he needed the room of spirit and time to surpass.

Despite Super Saiyan 2 being a multiplier, in the series it was treated like a level of power because none of the Super Saiyan 2s were that far apart in power.

edited 10th Apr '15 3:21:39 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#10790: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:39:30 PM

In Xenoverse, Goku just told my character that he has a friend named Krillin, who's an Earthling like me and trains every day.

"You should be like him and get even stronger than Saiyans".

I choose to believe "like Krillin" refers to "get even stronger than Saiyans". Because that's more fun.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10791: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:42:22 PM

Kuririn is stronger than about 99.99% of history's Saiyans.

So I think that's a fairly safe call.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10792: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:43:33 PM

Uub is completely human.

His power level is about equal to a Super Saiyan 3. Ish.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10793: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:45:27 PM

Potentially. We don't see him get there until maybe GT where the base Saiyans are all stronger than that anyway because GT.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#10794: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:49:33 PM

Clearly, Krillin needs to die again, to improve the base strength of his soul.

Wait, wrong show.

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10796: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:53:08 PM

I'm now wondering which show you're referring to, because I can think of multiple that fit.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#10797: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:55:06 PM

Is it just me, or does Goku's power tend to increase most dramatically while he's dead?

I mean, that's not always the case, but it feels like it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10798: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:58:24 PM

Well the first time he died he got 20x stronger in about half a year.

After that he got 10x stronger in six days while alive, then 33x stronger from his Namek Zenkai.

Then the 7 years between Cell and Boo gave him Super Saiyan 2 and 3 and a relatively small increase in base.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#10799: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:58:33 PM

[up][up][up] Shaman King.

One thing that amuses me in Xenoverse is how story mode and Parallel Quests will translate the same line in different ways.

edited 10th Apr '15 3:59:07 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10800: Apr 10th 2015 at 3:59:47 PM

Shoot, hadn't even considered that one.


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