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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#9776: Mar 1st 2015 at 5:42:27 PM

I'm more of a We Gotta Power! kind of guy.

Flare Up Miraculous Fire is my favorite tune from this franchise.

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#9777: Mar 1st 2015 at 5:54:36 PM

I like how the first time we see a female Super Saiyan, it's for a commercial for a card-based arcade game.

And the kicker? They just have the same blonde spikey hair as the males. What was that excuse that we haven't seen female super saiyans again?

edited 1st Mar '15 5:55:04 PM by Spirit

#IceBearForPresident
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#9778: Mar 1st 2015 at 5:57:37 PM

That Toriyama wouldn't know what they would look like.

edited 1st Mar '15 5:57:53 PM by VeryMelon

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#9779: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:03:13 PM

snirk

#IceBearForPresident
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#9780: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:03:51 PM

See, I would've said it was a lack of female Saiyans (prior to GT, of course).

I have a message from another time...
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9781: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:08:16 PM

The biggest bullshit about GT was that Pan couldn't go Super Saiyan, but Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. could in the last episode. So they couldn't even use "she's only 1/4 Saiyan" as an excuse.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#9782: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:13:20 PM

It's because they're women, and anime don't know how to have female warriors that are stronger than most members of the cast.

My various fanfics.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#9783: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:14:19 PM

I agree with that. Pan should have gone Super Saiyan sometime during GT.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9784: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:15:56 PM

...Than most members of the cast?

I mean.

For most of GT Goku is the only character that does anything combat-wise anyway.

And because of the power-scaling bullshit, the first level of super-saiyan became sorta meaningless anyway.

So. Like, it's kinda depressing that the writers wouldn't even let Pan have that much dignity.

edited 1st Mar '15 6:19:17 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9785: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:20:12 PM

It's weird, because Pan SEEMS like an important character a lot of the time. But she still didn't do much of note in GT. She gets character development, but still isn't relevant to the plot. Talk about They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9786: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:24:41 PM

I'm normally one to emphasize the way female characters are often mistreated in things because it's an issue I personally feel is often overlooked.

But in GT's case I cannot think of a single character of any gender that comes out better as a character than they were beforehand.

I mean. Bulma making a machine to help out Vegeta was neat. I guess. Maybe?

...I mean, it was still kinda lame.

Eh.

GT had every flaw of every incarnation of Dragon Ball with absolutely none of the charm.

EDIT: Taka's Voice 8 in Xenoverse had lines from the Para Para brothers.

Just. Why?

I mean.

I like how the original Dragon Ball was silly. I do. But the way GT went back to it is.

EDIT: I mean, it was kinda messed up that they made Bra a stereotypical teenager, interested in boys and fashion and not much else, and an airhead. Like, normally I don't like using those sorts of terms to describe women or female characters, but GT didn't provide much else to work with.

And it was messed up and weird she wore those revealing outfits even though I'm pretty sure she was meant to be like 9 or something. Just. Why? I mean, nevermind the prevalence of sexualized female character designs, the fact that Bra and Pan were underage and extremely underage is just. It's like, even worse somehow, and it would have been pretty bad to begin with.

I mean. Why couldn't Bra have been like an intern at Capsule Corp?

Why couldn't she have been a Super Saiyan? I mean, she wouldn't have been that much younger than Goten and Trunks were when they got it.

Why couldn't she have had some goddamned character development?

I mean, it's an action series, so the odds of non-combatants getting a lot of focus or being able to contribute are low to begin with, but. Why did they choose to take her character, the only basis of which was a sweet little girl cheering her slightly older best friend on at the tournament, and take her in the direction they did?

edited 1st Mar '15 6:46:23 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9787: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:45:19 PM

It was like they were trying to emulate the style of Dragon Ball, but they didn't understand how to do it. And then they backpedalled, decided "screw it, we need more epic battles", but then had the problem of making them boring and poorly paced. These were the guys responsible for filler, after all. It's like they weren't used to it.

And some of the things Kid Goku does in GT is ridiculous. I thought they made him Goku a child to nerf him, but the opposite ended up happening.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9788: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:50:43 PM

And it's not like I wouldn't watch a goofy slice of life sitcom starring the Dragon Ball characters. I so would. The Great Saiyaman Saga and Piccolo driving sold me on the comedy gold inherent in that.

But.

See, how it would work would sorta depend on what makes the characters interesting and great. Not a several arc character assassination that ruins every aspect of their concepts.

You play on the disconnect and the friction implicit in putting the characters through situations you wouldn't expect them to go through but you don't completely reverse their characters to do that because that rather defeats the purpose.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9789: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:55:25 PM

[up] This. So much this.

Sometimes, when I'm in an everyday situation, I think "What would happen if DBZ characters were doing this?" And then I laugh. Because not only would it end up being hilarious, but it also COULD happen in canon.

Like, say, Bulma going grocery shopping, and the cashier being all "wow, are you having a party or something? You have a lot of food here." And Bulma replying "no, this is just the usual."

edited 1st Mar '15 7:02:43 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#9790: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:56:14 PM

I want more of Vegeta and his pink shirt.

Oh really when?
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#9791: Mar 1st 2015 at 6:59:42 PM

Why you couldn't have a female super saiyan? Because there were no female saiyans in the cast.

And that "Toriyama doesn't know what they would look like" thing is just another of the numerous rumors about the man floating around on the internet.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9792: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:01:31 PM

Pan and Bra.

I mean, heck, why couldn't they have been Super Saiyans at that last World Tournament? No, really. After Goten and Trunks there would have been precedent.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#9793: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:03:04 PM

A 4 year old and a 3 year old respectively, both introduced in the last chapters of the manga.

What does being a Super Saiyan do for either character? How does it contribute to them or help the plot in any way? Here's the answers: it does nothing for the characters and doesn't. The plot was over and they were freshly introduced characters.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:05:40 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9794: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:03:53 PM

To be fair, they were 4 in the epilogue. I doubt anyone is going to break Goten's record of going Super Saiyan at 7.

But GT had the option to do it, and they chose not to.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9795: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:06:18 PM

Again, precedent.

I mean, heck, it seems like Saiyan kids get stronger when surrounded by really strong Saiyans while growing up. That seems like what they were going for what with kid Trunks getting stronger than Future Trunks.

Pan could have been a Super Saiyan in that last chapter and so would Bra and literally nothing else would have changed except it would have avoided the unfortunate implications about female super saiyans that have been plaguing this series since the manga ended.

With Pan, she seemed very consciously designed in terms of personality to be a lot like Goku. Even more so than Goten. Her being a Super Saiyan gives you a sense for the potential of this new generation that Goku is so invested in.

Nevermind GT with Uub getting curbstomped all the time.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:09:18 PM by unnoun

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#9796: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:09:20 PM

>Unfortunate Implications

Yeah, when you start including shit that doesn't need to be included just to avoid those you're actively making your show worse for no benefit. Pan. Was. Four. Years. Old. She also showed up at the very end of the series.

I don't care about what GT did with her. Talking about the only part of Dragonball that matters here.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:09:50 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9797: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:10:54 PM

I think Pan's appearance was fine in DBZ. She was a Last Episode, New Character. She didn't have to be Super Saiyan or anything. The fact she was fighting was cool enough. It's how GT treated her which is what I have a problem with.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:11:44 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9798: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:12:40 PM

[up] Fair enough.

Pan. Was. Four. Years. Old. She also showed up at the very end of the series.

A four year old that was already one of the strongest people in the world.

With a transformation that's multiplicative in terms of increase, I mean.

She still wouldn't have broken the top ten.

This isn't much. This is a bare minimum. The fact that you are reacting so negatively about it I find rather disappointing.

I mean.

We have seen Bardock as a Super Saiyan in official media.

The same has not happened to Pan. That's kinda. Um.

Yeah, when you start including shit that doesn't need to be included just to avoid those you're actively making your show worse for no benefit.

How would anything be worse?

Draw her hair spiky. Do her hair and eye color palettes the way you do the Super Saiyans normally.

Done.

I mean, way back in the Cell Saga Goku had a bit of a thing about making the Super Saiyan the base state. Using it all the time for a week. Get the kids started with that whole "control" thing early on.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:16:27 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#9799: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:16:01 PM

Dragon Ball Heroes should include Super Saiyan Pan. Or one of the new video games. If you're going to put SSJ 3 Broly or Vegeta, you have to at least do SSJ Pan. When they're run out of ideas for new cards, they might as well do it.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:16:59 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#9800: Mar 1st 2015 at 7:16:59 PM

I think Super Saiyan Pan should have been one of the ideas that they started with, quite frankly.

I would, naturally, given my priorities in these matters, but still.

edited 1st Mar '15 7:18:01 PM by unnoun


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