And the kicker? They just have the same blonde spikey hair as the males. What was that excuse that we haven't seen female super saiyans again?
edited 1st Mar '15 5:55:04 PM by Spirit
#IceBearForPresidentThe biggest bullshit about GT was that Pan couldn't go Super Saiyan, but Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. could in the last episode. So they couldn't even use "she's only 1/4 Saiyan" as an excuse.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!It's because they're women, and anime don't know how to have female warriors that are stronger than most members of the cast.
My various fanfics....Than most members of the cast?
I mean.
For most of GT Goku is the only character that does anything combat-wise anyway.
And because of the power-scaling bullshit, the first level of super-saiyan became sorta meaningless anyway.
So. Like, it's kinda depressing that the writers wouldn't even let Pan have that much dignity.
edited 1st Mar '15 6:19:17 PM by unnoun
It's weird, because Pan SEEMS like an important character a lot of the time. But she still didn't do much of note in GT. She gets character development, but still isn't relevant to the plot. Talk about They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!I'm normally one to emphasize the way female characters are often mistreated in things because it's an issue I personally feel is often overlooked.
But in GT's case I cannot think of a single character of any gender that comes out better as a character than they were beforehand.
I mean. Bulma making a machine to help out Vegeta was neat. I guess. Maybe?
...I mean, it was still kinda lame.
Eh.
GT had every flaw of every incarnation of Dragon Ball with absolutely none of the charm.
EDIT: Taka's Voice 8 in Xenoverse had lines from the Para Para brothers.
Just. Why?
I mean.
I like how the original Dragon Ball was silly. I do. But the way GT went back to it is.
EDIT: I mean, it was kinda messed up that they made Bra a stereotypical teenager, interested in boys and fashion and not much else, and an airhead. Like, normally I don't like using those sorts of terms to describe women or female characters, but GT didn't provide much else to work with.
And it was messed up and weird she wore those revealing outfits even though I'm pretty sure she was meant to be like 9 or something. Just. Why? I mean, nevermind the prevalence of sexualized female character designs, the fact that Bra and Pan were underage and extremely underage is just. It's like, even worse somehow, and it would have been pretty bad to begin with.
I mean. Why couldn't Bra have been like an intern at Capsule Corp?
Why couldn't she have been a Super Saiyan? I mean, she wouldn't have been that much younger than Goten and Trunks were when they got it.
Why couldn't she have had some goddamned character development?
I mean, it's an action series, so the odds of non-combatants getting a lot of focus or being able to contribute are low to begin with, but. Why did they choose to take her character, the only basis of which was a sweet little girl cheering her slightly older best friend on at the tournament, and take her in the direction they did?
edited 1st Mar '15 6:46:23 PM by unnoun
It was like they were trying to emulate the style of Dragon Ball, but they didn't understand how to do it. And then they backpedalled, decided "screw it, we need more epic battles", but then had the problem of making them boring and poorly paced. These were the guys responsible for filler, after all. It's like they weren't used to it.
And some of the things Kid Goku does in GT is ridiculous. I thought they made him Goku a child to nerf him, but the opposite ended up happening.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!And it's not like I wouldn't watch a goofy slice of life sitcom starring the Dragon Ball characters. I so would. The Great Saiyaman Saga and Piccolo driving sold me on the comedy gold inherent in that.
But.
See, how it would work would sorta depend on what makes the characters interesting and great. Not a several arc character assassination that ruins every aspect of their concepts.
You play on the disconnect and the friction implicit in putting the characters through situations you wouldn't expect them to go through but you don't completely reverse their characters to do that because that rather defeats the purpose.
This. So much this.
Sometimes, when I'm in an everyday situation, I think "What would happen if DBZ characters were doing this?" And then I laugh. Because not only would it end up being hilarious, but it also COULD happen in canon.
Like, say, Bulma going grocery shopping, and the cashier being all "wow, are you having a party or something? You have a lot of food here." And Bulma replying "no, this is just the usual."
edited 1st Mar '15 7:02:43 PM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!A 4 year old and a 3 year old respectively, both introduced in the last chapters of the manga.
What does being a Super Saiyan do for either character? How does it contribute to them or help the plot in any way? Here's the answers: it does nothing for the characters and doesn't. The plot was over and they were freshly introduced characters.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:05:40 PM by Cruherrx
"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."To be fair, they were 4 in the epilogue. I doubt anyone is going to break Goten's record of going Super Saiyan at 7.
But GT had the option to do it, and they chose not to.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!Again, precedent.
I mean, heck, it seems like Saiyan kids get stronger when surrounded by really strong Saiyans while growing up. That seems like what they were going for what with kid Trunks getting stronger than Future Trunks.
Pan could have been a Super Saiyan in that last chapter and so would Bra and literally nothing else would have changed except it would have avoided the unfortunate implications about female super saiyans that have been plaguing this series since the manga ended.
With Pan, she seemed very consciously designed in terms of personality to be a lot like Goku. Even more so than Goten. Her being a Super Saiyan gives you a sense for the potential of this new generation that Goku is so invested in.
Nevermind GT with Uub getting curbstomped all the time.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:09:18 PM by unnoun
>Unfortunate Implications
Yeah, when you start including shit that doesn't need to be included just to avoid those you're actively making your show worse for no benefit. Pan. Was. Four. Years. Old. She also showed up at the very end of the series.
I don't care about what GT did with her. Talking about the only part of Dragonball that matters here.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:09:50 PM by Cruherrx
"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."I think Pan's appearance was fine in DBZ. She was a Last Episode, New Character. She didn't have to be Super Saiyan or anything. The fact she was fighting was cool enough. It's how GT treated her which is what I have a problem with.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:11:44 PM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Fair enough.
A four year old that was already one of the strongest people in the world.
With a transformation that's multiplicative in terms of increase, I mean.
She still wouldn't have broken the top ten.
This isn't much. This is a bare minimum. The fact that you are reacting so negatively about it I find rather disappointing.
I mean.
We have seen Bardock as a Super Saiyan in official media.
The same has not happened to Pan. That's kinda. Um.
How would anything be worse?
Draw her hair spiky. Do her hair and eye color palettes the way you do the Super Saiyans normally.
Done.
I mean, way back in the Cell Saga Goku had a bit of a thing about making the Super Saiyan the base state. Using it all the time for a week. Get the kids started with that whole "control" thing early on.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:16:27 PM by unnoun
Dragon Ball Heroes should include Super Saiyan Pan. Or one of the new video games. If you're going to put SSJ 3 Broly or Vegeta, you have to at least do SSJ Pan. When they're run out of ideas for new cards, they might as well do it.
edited 1st Mar '15 7:16:59 PM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!

Flare Up Miraculous Fire is my favorite tune from this franchise.