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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8951: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:03:03 AM

[up][up] His fight with Goku was Goku staying constantly ahead of him, and the only real danger was when Piccolo miraculously recovered to attack his shoulder. That moment didn't last very long for him.

After that, he did have a good moment during the Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz fight, which was pretty unique in that he had the final blow, and than all competency disappeared for the rest of the series.

[up] Also this.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#8952: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:41:19 AM

It's kind of interesting that in every single arc in DBZ, there's been a point where Piccolo was the most powerful hero. And it's hilarious that in the Buu arc, rather than being because of him getting more powerful it's because literally everyone who was more stronger than him was either dead, MIA, or way too incapacitated to actually help.

That was a bad couple of days for our heroes.

edited 27th Dec '14 1:42:23 AM by KnownUnknown

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8953: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:48:16 AM

That's not true for the Boo arc. There's never any point where all the stronger characters are simultaneously dead/incapacitated. The closest comes after the ritual starts with Gohan, if you're going to count that as incapacitating him, which leaves Kaioshin completely free to do whatever.

And then there's Goten and Trunks, who are implied to be stronger than Piccolo. Even if you don't want to accept that, there's nothing proving Piccolo is stronger, so that statement can't be proven.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#8954: Dec 27th 2014 at 6:52:57 AM

Piccolo had already been The Mentor to Gohan. In the Buu Arc, which I no longer hate, he was on babysitting duty.

During the Buu arc, the only characters who were important enough to get screwed, and the only arc at which I acknowledge there to be definite screwing, were Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin, in that order.

Piccolo is also stronger than the individual Goten and Trunks, as when the Gotenks fusion in Super Buu faded, it was Piccolo that his design emulated.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8955: Dec 27th 2014 at 7:00:02 AM

"Babysitting duty" is still one of the best roles he's had.

Dead wrong, for three reasons:

1) The design Boo emulates is never said to be based on strength. Fat Boo has both Dai Kaioshin and South Kaioshin absorbed, yet he emulates the weaker Dai Kaioshin

2) Goten and Trunks are in base while in Boo, so it wouldn't even be a comparison to their Super Saiyan forms

3) Boo is emulating all three. When Goku and Vegeta are removing the pods, Piccolo's is last. And we see a massive difference in appearance when Piccolo is the only absorbee - Boo has the shorter tentacle, less human features, and purple clothes. With all three absorbed, he only has Piccolo's cape, but has a more human looking face, hands, and the longer head tentacle.

That scene simply isn't indicative of who is strongest. It's never outright said either way, but the only evidence presented is in the kids' favour. In the Dragon Ball thread I listed things that indicate the kids were stronger.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#8956: Dec 27th 2014 at 7:13:52 AM

Could you share an image of what Buu looked like with just Piccolo in him? I'd like to see it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#8958: Dec 27th 2014 at 7:32:57 AM

Even more embarrassing for Piccolo is Shonen Jump's reveal of the Battle Powers of Piccolo and Nappa and 3,500 and 4,000, respectively. Despite being almost equal in strength to Nappa and having Krillin and Gohan fighting alongside him, Piccolo is still thoroughly outclassed by the experienced Saiyan warrior.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
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#8960: Dec 27th 2014 at 8:24:21 AM

I find it funny that Toriyama's released stat books showing concrete power levels for so many points in the series, when he allegedly introduced scouters for the purpose of showing how much of a bad idea it was for the villains to rely on concrete power level numbers like that.

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mrsunshinesprinkles Forever Gorgeous from Somewhere, crying Since: Jan, 2012
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#8961: Dec 27th 2014 at 8:45:40 AM

Shows to go you that fan demand can change a creator's mind is the demand is strong enough.

Especially with Toriyama, who isn't known for sticking to what's in his text.

edited 27th Dec '14 8:46:20 AM by mrsunshinesprinkles

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#8962: Dec 27th 2014 at 8:52:27 AM

The problem with the Scouters isn't that the readings they give aren't valid, but that they can be easily misled by characters masking their battle power, techniques exist that are more powerful than the user - Raditz even notices the way the Makankosappo's battle power is much higher than Piccolo's - and their overuse is a crutch that gives the ki-sensing protagonists an edge by way of not needing an artificial device to do theirs, an advantage Goku put to great effect against Frieza.

Ultimately, the Scouters don't do anything that the ki-sensing that God teaches doesn't, but Frieza's men have become over-accustomed to the idea that the reading is a flawless indication of the target's maximum power.

Piccolo v. Nappa is actually a good example of that. Piccolo's maximum battle power was 3,500, but when Nappa read him on the Scouter, he was a mere 1,220. Vegeta, like Captain Ginyu and Frieza, was able to see through the protagonists' masking of their battle power and understand that the Scouter's reading is useless so long as they can evade an accurate identification. This does not mean that the numbers given are necessarily inaccurate, but that the device itself is too easily defeated.

Someone with a battle power of 500 will have an easy time dealing with someone with a battle power of 250, but the Scouter may read the former as having a battle power of 75 because he's deliberately masking his ki, giving the latter a false sense of security. Compare also Goku arriving on Namek with a pitiful, worthless battle power of 5k and then making short work of the Ginyus because his battle power is actually 90k to their 30k-60k. It is not the number that's flawed - 90k beats the hell out of 30-60k - but the Scouter's reading of 5k.

edited 27th Dec '14 8:57:00 AM by TobiasDrake

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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#8963: Dec 27th 2014 at 10:18:11 AM

Buu got more humanoid the more people he absorbed, but consistently wore the clothes of the stronger absorbee. No need to overanalyze it, Piccolo is the 4th unfused fighter, and the kids are no counts until they learned how to fuse.

Also, just a reminder: GT happened FIVE years after the ending of Z, the 10 year figure is an artifact of the dub.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#8964: Dec 27th 2014 at 11:06:55 AM

so Pan is like 8-10 years old?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#8965: Dec 27th 2014 at 11:10:52 AM

Yes she was 10 years old at the start of GT.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#8966: Dec 27th 2014 at 12:52:40 PM

watched the ep.huh.remembered the fight being mostly in Picollo's favour.all those veins say he was barely above 17.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
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#8967: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:28:42 PM

Can we stop with the bullshit that Goku "STEALS" techniques, by the way? It comes up in like every other TFS Plays DBZ games video. He didn't steal moves, he was taught them. It's like saying that being able to use basic sentence structure means you "stole" from your English teacher.

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#8968: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:32:10 PM

The point is he does not make his own moves.

edited 27th Dec '14 1:32:21 PM by Memers

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#8969: Dec 27th 2014 at 1:35:14 PM

we could use copy then?

[up] makig your own move is overrated. tongue

edited 27th Dec '14 1:35:40 PM by alekos23

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
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#8970: Dec 27th 2014 at 2:00:00 PM

Very overrated. Name a DBZ saga that was resolved by someone who makes their own techniques.

Goku's stable of moves is small because he doesn't have the duty of coming up with new moves to be Worf'd.

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Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#8971: Dec 27th 2014 at 2:09:31 PM

about Picollo VS 17 they were about equal in power 17 just had a slight edge near the end in that he never runs out of energy

also there is no way Nappahs powerlevel was a mere 4000

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#8972: Dec 27th 2014 at 2:15:48 PM

[up][up] Frieza was beaten by an original move, both times.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#8973: Dec 27th 2014 at 2:21:03 PM

Goku was rarely taught moves. He watches other people do them, then copies them. His Kaioken and Genki-Dama are the only techniques of Goku's I can think of that he was actually formally trained in.

[up] Frieza was beaten by his own Kienzan the first time and being cut with a sword the second. The former is Krillin's technique and the latter doesn't really count as a "technique" outside the video games, which give names to any neat moves the characters performed regardless of if they're actually techniques.

edited 27th Dec '14 2:23:02 PM by TobiasDrake

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
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#8975: Dec 27th 2014 at 2:27:41 PM

Goku created Dragon Fist...but that's a movie only thing.

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