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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#8751: Dec 23rd 2014 at 1:48:20 PM

The first time he went was very terrifying and very iconic.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8752: Dec 23rd 2014 at 2:36:29 PM

It was used five times and only one of those times was any different due to the user being in control. I think the manga had enough of it.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#8753: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:06:02 PM

Goddammit, Goku's first super saiyan's going to be number one, isn't it?

I mean, it is pretty iconic, but it's always at the top of every dragon ball z list ever made.

edited 23rd Dec '14 3:06:31 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#8754: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:07:03 PM

[up] Could it be at the top of every list of iconic / greatest moments because it's iconic... Maybe that explains it.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#8755: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:10:03 PM

Well, duh it's iconic, but it's always put in the number one spot.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8756: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:10:49 PM

...because it's so iconic.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#8757: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:11:39 PM

Have they done the first time Krillin dies? I feel like that sets a major bar for the series.

Oh really when?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8758: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:12:31 PM

T Hey have.

I have a message from another time...
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#8759: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:13:12 PM

Hmm, error leads me to interesting film.

Neat.

Oh really when?
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8760: Dec 23rd 2014 at 3:15:36 PM

I agree with Bacon, it's kind of boring to have it always at the top of the list. But that's why I don't like lists of iconic things, they're always fairly predictable.

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#8761: Dec 23rd 2014 at 4:29:12 PM

It is predictable, but to be fair, it's predictable because it's logical and doing anything else would be absurd and call upon some serious explanation. When it comes to Dragonball, the first thing most people think of is Super Saiyan. Hell, I know people who know next to nothing about the series but know that much.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8762: Dec 23rd 2014 at 4:29:56 PM

I might've put SS 2 at number 1.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8763: Dec 23rd 2014 at 4:32:08 PM

I don't think it'd be absurd at all to use something else. I could easily see several things taking place over the first Super Saiyan scene, like Raditz' arrival, the first meeting between Bulma and Goku, the finale, etc.

I also think number 1 spot being something that requires explanation wouldn't be so bad. Probably better than "and for number 1, you knew what it was, k done".

I really would've preferred some other measure than iconicness, I guess.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8764: Dec 23rd 2014 at 4:33:39 PM

Iconic, and also their favorites. And you know what they say about accounting for taste.

I have a message from another time...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#8765: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:27:46 PM

They've been providing explanations for each moment any way.

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#8766: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:32:28 PM

[up][up] Pretty much that.

To note, my personal favorite moment is Gohan turning SS 2, but I will fully admit my personal bias is there as Gohan is my favorite character. Beyond that though, as they best pointed out, it was just the climax of his character arc and the transformation (plus following fight with Cell) were an amazing passing of the torch.

edited 23rd Dec '14 5:32:51 PM by Prime_of_Perfection

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#8767: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:36:12 PM

Until Goku promptly takes it back.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8768: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:36:51 PM

Gohan is everyone's favorite character. He's all the best things about Goku distilled into a socially acceptable human being. It's hard to dislike Gohan.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#8769: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:40:14 PM

I've never really thought about it, but of the characters that actually matter (which is discounting Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu by the way), Gohan probably is my favorite.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#8770: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:40:41 PM

I don't know about everyone's favorite character, but it is definitely hard to dislike him.

edited 23rd Dec '14 5:44:32 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8771: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:41:11 PM

What are you talking about? There is a huge amount of hate for Gohan that's pretty easy to find.

I've been thinking lately that, while in character given the whole rage thing, Gohan toying with Cell wasn't good for his character. It's just too similar to Goku/Vegeta's behaviour, and if he hadn't fucked around it could have been one more thing that separated him from Goku and showed why he could succeed Goku - because he'd put the Earth before petty things.

As it is, it ends up more like everybody fucks around but when it's Goku he gets away with it or even benefits (compare letting Freeza power up to 100% to letting Cell becoming Perfect or do the self-destruct thing).'

I take issue with Gohan's Cell Games characterisation (both before and after becoming Super Saiyan 2) and how things were handled later in the Boo arc and post-series, but he is definitely my favourite character as I think I've made clear before. Previously it was Vegeta, but I got annoyed with how Toriyama used him as a plot device post-Freeza arc.

edited 23rd Dec '14 5:43:00 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#8772: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:46:03 PM

[up]Was that supposed to be good for his character? I thought the whole point of that was to show how much of his saiyan insticts that the transformation brought out of him and how that wasn't a goof thing.

edited 23rd Dec '14 5:47:36 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8773: Dec 23rd 2014 at 5:51:38 PM

Of course it wasn't, but that's not the same as something being good for one's character. Mistakes can be good for a character's development if they lead to growth.

I don't think it was intended to be good or bad, it's just Toriyama's favourite method of giving the losing party a chance to even things up, which gets really frustrating where damn near everyone does it. I don't think it had anything to do with Saiyan instincts getting brought out, because non-Saiyan characters do it as well when they're in a position of power.

But I think it was bad for Gohan in a way Toriyama didn't intend, since Gohan never makes up for this or develops from it. On top of that, he has far less reason to be prone to this behaviour than the full-blooded Saiyans, and it just makes him too similar to them.

I really think that behaviour should've been exclusive to Goku and Vegeta, and it'd still be frustrating in Vegeta's case because it contradicts the cunning moments he had earlier in the series.

edited 23rd Dec '14 5:52:18 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8774: Dec 23rd 2014 at 6:17:12 PM

Thing is, it wasn't completely unprecedented. This was the culmination of all those berserker rage moments Gohan had had before this moment. Yeah, it's more controlled than his previous episodes, due to him now consciously knowing about that side of himself, but that focused form of his hatred wound up causing other problems (turning mindless fury into cold sadism). He wound up reversing his mistake by focusing his power through a different emotion during that final clash with Cell.

And I suppose his final power-up might be switching from anger or hatred or pain into something more like an enlightenment-based power, but that's getting into wild speculation.

edited 23rd Dec '14 6:20:06 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8775: Dec 23rd 2014 at 6:29:29 PM

But that's completely different. We knew Gohan flipped out, but nothing suggests he'd turn into a sadist who'd draw things out and fuck around. Hell, it's virtually the opposite of flying into a rage, because you need to restrain yourself to do that.

And my issue isn't with how much grounding it has or how logical it is, but it ultimately just means Gohan is doing the same mistake that everyone else has, and it's been absolutely abused by that point.

Gohan being one to finish his fights as quickly as he could would've made a good contrast to his dad and been consistent with not gaining pleasure from fighting like Goku does.


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