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God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#8576: Dec 11th 2014 at 11:23:11 PM

My understanding is that Buu got progressively more dangerous as he got weaker. His mind was tied to his power and he tossed out large amount of his power with his restraints.

Of course, I've never watched the show, this is all second-hand at best.

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#8577: Dec 12th 2014 at 4:19:31 AM

General consensus is that Super Buu has the most power (as he's basically fat Buu with no peaceful nature), especially once he starts absorbing people.

That said, any Buu is obscenely powerful.

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zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#8578: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:22:10 AM

Super Buu was stronger, but had restraint.
Kid Buu was weaker, but had none.

He may have lost strength and ki, but suddenly was willing to use all of it, all the time, for little to no reason.

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#8579: Dec 12th 2014 at 7:04:24 AM

[up] That.

Super Buu is stronger. Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is the strongest character we ever see, save for Vegetto and later movies' introduction of God stuffs. Pure Buu is weaker than Super Buu - and orders of magnitude weaker than Buuhan - to the point that Goku and Vegeta's choice to break the Potara did not instantly render the fight unwinnable and doom the universe to annihilation.

What made Pure Buu dangerous is his complete lack of motivation. He doesn't want anything, he lacks personality and character traits. Appeals to morality, to entertainment, and to ego all fall on deaf ears. He is a mindless force of destruction willing to just go, "F*ck this planet," five seconds after awakening with no build up.

Buuhan > Buutenks > Super Buu > Pure Buu > Fat Buu

edited 12th Dec '14 7:06:35 AM by TobiasDrake

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8580: Dec 12th 2014 at 7:07:59 AM

@LSBK It is assuming that, because Goku only fucked up due to believing his living body could handle SS3 as well as his dead body. He simply hadn't had the experience fighting as an alive SS3 until then. If he dies, though... suddenly he's back in the situation he first expected, under limits he understands.

And I have to disagree that Pure Boo should have been bullshitted into being strongest. I actually appreciate that Toriyama didn't backtrack on Goku being weaker than Gohan/Gotenks when he decided to force Goku into the MC role again. Nice to have some consistency... even if he totally failed to make Pure Boo a legitimate threat.

The reason for the Super/Kid power confusion comes partially from Kid being the final villain (which lots of folks assume means strongest) and mostly from the anime saying he is the strongest 2 or 3 times. But the anime was all over the place on that - it still kept the lines saying Super was stronger, and even added new lines and scenes to suggest Super was stronger in addition to what they added to say Kid was stronger. Fuck the what.

the manga is consistent in Super being stronger than Kid.

edited 12th Dec '14 7:14:14 AM by Saiga

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#8581: Dec 12th 2014 at 7:24:34 AM

Yeah, it's a very good thing that they found another way to remove Super Buu after losing the earrings.

Of course, Buu just in general is really damn powerful.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#8582: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:04:29 AM

I thought Kid Buu was pretty threatening.

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#8583: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:25:56 AM

[up][up] Very much so, yes.

For as much as fans talk about the Saiyans being the ultimate things in existence, Majin Buu outclasses all the Saiyans. The only one that could actually compete with him was Gohan and even then, only after having his power unlocked by Old Kai.

Ultimate Gohan > Majin Buu > The god-humiliating Saiyan characters > The Supreme Kais > Frieza > The rest of the universe.

edited 12th Dec '14 9:27:07 AM by TobiasDrake

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#8584: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:31:05 AM

Vegetto > all those, of course.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#8585: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:37:18 AM

I wonder how strong Gokan would've been...

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#8586: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:37:46 AM

Stupidly strong. As strong as Charlie from Street Fighter. There would be no plot if he existed.

edited 12th Dec '14 9:38:24 AM by SonOfSharknado

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#8587: Dec 12th 2014 at 9:38:59 AM

Gokan would have done to Super Buu what Vegetto could effortlessly have done to Pure Buu.

Even a Super Buu that paradoxically managed to absorb Gohan despite the fusion.

edited 12th Dec '14 9:39:39 AM by TobiasDrake

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#8588: Dec 12th 2014 at 10:30:22 AM

Would Gokan be more or less powerful as a Super Saiyan 3, compared to base form?

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stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#8589: Dec 12th 2014 at 10:32:01 AM

Vegetto was stronger than SSJ 3, so Gokhan would as well.

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#8590: Dec 12th 2014 at 10:34:07 AM

I meant SS 3 Gokan, not SS 3 Goku. Taking into account Gohan's non-SS powerup.

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zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#8591: Dec 12th 2014 at 11:13:32 AM

Hard to say, really. The mechanics of the mystic form are vague at best.

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#8592: Dec 12th 2014 at 12:52:22 PM

We're never told exactly why Gohan can't become a Super Saiyan anymore, just that he can't. The Ultimate Gohan power-up is applied to his base, rather than being a transformation, so IF Gokan retained the ability to become a Super Saiyan 3 from Goku on top of Gohan's Ultimate upgrade, it should work exactly like you'd think it does. 400x Ultimate Gokan.

Which is probably enough power to destroy the universe by breathing too hard. Super Saiyan 3 Gokan could make short work of just about anything in a couple minutes, which is good because Super Saiyan 3's caustic power drain would guarantee he only had a couple minutes to do it in.

If, on the other hand, Gokan retained Gohan's inability to transform, he would just have to settle for being the most powerful being imaginable, rather than a wandering annihilation zone that blows up galaxies every time he blinks.

edited 12th Dec '14 12:56:46 PM by TobiasDrake

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#8593: Dec 12th 2014 at 3:30:54 PM

For as much as fans talk about the Saiyans being the ultimate things in existence, Majin Buu outclasses all the Saiyans. The only one that could actually compete with him was Gohan and even then, only after having his power unlocked by Old Kai.

But Boo could only stand up to the Saiyans because he absorbed the Kais. The original Boo is comparable to Goku, and simply has the advantages of stamina and regen, but does still risk getting killed in a confrontation with Goku. On his own Majin Boo outclasses... Vegeta, and the individual kids.

Also Gotenks was stronger than Evil Boo. The fact that he fucks around and wastes his time limit doesn't mean he can't compete with him, he just wastes that opportunity.tongue

On Gokan and Super Saiyan - Gohan was told to become a Super Saiyan when he turned Ultimate, so if Gokan tries to transform he'll likely just power up.

On the other hand, Old Kaioshin said that if Goku and Gohan fused, they'd beat Boo without needing Super Saiyan. It'd be a bit weird for him to say that if Gokan couldn't turn Super Saiyan at all, or already had superior power due to the Ultimate state. But he was saying this in response to Goku wondering if he should turn Super Saiyan before fusing with Gohan, so he might just be talking about Goku individually.

It's hard to say what would happen when two characters with different power ups fuse.

edited 12th Dec '14 3:49:48 PM by Saiga

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#8594: Dec 12th 2014 at 5:30:37 PM

I discounted Gotenks for the same reason I discounted Vegetto; when I say Majin Buu outclasses the Saiyans, I mean individually. If Gohan and Uub used a Potara, they could probably beat Vegetto, but that doesn't change the fact that Vegetto is the strongest character ever to appear in the story.

1v1, Ultimate Gohan is the only Saiyan that could reliably win against Pure or Super Buu. Goku only counts if he's dead. Purely by the numbers, Majin Buu tops the charts, save for Gohan squatting on his head. That he lost is a product of the fact that the protagonists are not, by any means, required to compete 1v1,

edited 12th Dec '14 5:33:08 PM by TobiasDrake

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#8595: Dec 12th 2014 at 5:40:55 PM

If Gohan and Uub used a Potara, they could probably beat Vegetto, but that doesn't change the fact that Vegetto is the strongest character ever to appear in the story.

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. This doesn't seem to be related to anything.

Out of the five Saiyans you've counted, yes only Gohan beats out Boo. But that still means Boo isn't on top by any definition, making the comparison rather pointless.

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#8596: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:16:45 PM

Jeez... how powerful would Gohuub be without even needing to transform?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8597: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:18:16 PM

Well, unless you're talking GT, he shouldn't transform at all.tongue

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#8598: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:21:41 PM

Depends on how powerful the potara fusion is, compared to Buu's absorption. We've already had an example of Gohan "fused" with something on Buu's level, after all.

edited 12th Dec '14 6:22:26 PM by Enlong

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8599: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:32:00 PM

Well, Boo's absorption is additive and fusion is more than just addition, especially when you look at Vegetto.

I think the biggest thing is how much potential Oob has. Can he get much stronger than Pure Boo? If not, he's probably not a good potara partner for Gohan.

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#8600: Dec 12th 2014 at 6:34:52 PM

Depends on his traning, I think. He probably has at least as much potential powerr, and learning proper fighting (as opposed to Buu's almost entirely self-taught technique) could only help him.

Then again, different fusions take different things into account. Piccolo's fusion with Kami powered him up a lot more than simple addition would've done, for example. My thinking is that he gained Kami's full potential power with that one (which would be basically equal to his own minus Nail's, I guess).

So, who knows if Potara fusion with Uub would be more powerful with more training.

edited 12th Dec '14 6:36:36 PM by Enlong

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