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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8451: Dec 3rd 2014 at 7:30:15 AM

I apologize for bringing up Krillin.

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8452: Dec 3rd 2014 at 7:58:01 AM

Maybe it turns out like the Tarble movie, and the heroes just sic Krillin on Freeza.

As the strongest human on Earth, Krillin clocked in at a solid 75,000 the last time humans were relevant, which is highly impressive compared to the 1,000-2,000 of Yamcha and Tien. Having his potential unlocked gave him a massive boost, and he would be able to effortlessly dominate a fight with any member of the Ginyu Force who is not the Captain.

He still doesn't even come close to being able to compare with Frieza's 120,000,000. Frieza would make short work of Krillin even while reduced to his First Form and its comparatively pitiful 530,000.

And before anyone says it, no, Mountain Training will not close this gap. As Saiga pointed out, the Cell and Buu arcs may have thoroughly overshadowed Frieza, but not so much that he might as well be duking it out with Mr. Satan now. He's still every bit the universe-shattering powerhouse he ever was; he just can't compete with those characters who can outfight gods, and none of the humans are on that list.

edited 3rd Dec '14 8:01:42 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8453: Dec 3rd 2014 at 8:05:02 AM

But Mr. Satan defeated Cell, surely Frieza has no chance against him?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8454: Dec 3rd 2014 at 8:35:18 AM

You know what, fair enough.

Out of all the humans, Mr. Satan's Dynamite Punch has the best shot of beating Frieza. Or, at the very least, it has as much of a chance at winning that fight as anything Krillin, Tien, or Yamcha could attempt.

edited 3rd Dec '14 8:36:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#8455: Dec 3rd 2014 at 8:42:05 AM

Are you guys high? Why would Marky Mark Satan waste his time fighting a plebeian like Frieza? Only Beerus is somewhat worthy of him.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8456: Dec 3rd 2014 at 8:46:55 AM

  • FRIEZA: At last, I have returned to wreak my vengeance!
  • GOKU: Oh, hey, it's Frieza. Hi Frieza!
  • FRIEZA: Tremble in terror at my newfound power!
  • GOKU: Would you like a scone?
  • FRIEZA: I...what?
  • GOKU: We're kind of in the middle of a party here. Bulma made scones. I think they're some kind of bread thing.
  • FRIEZA: You are inviting ME, LORD FRIEZA, to sit down and eat a scone?
  • GOKU: Yeah. They're actually pretty tasty.
  • FRIEZA: Are you out of your mind? I'm trying to kill you, you idiot!
  • GOKU: All my other great nemeses became buddies after we fought. But you went and died on me instead. That kinda hurt my feelings.
  • FRIEZA: ...
  • GOKU: Look, even Majin Buu is here. Two of him, in fact!
  • FRIEZA: ...is that blueberry?
  • GOKU: I think so.
  • FRIEZA: You know what, sure, I'll try a scone.

edited 3rd Dec '14 8:48:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#8457: Dec 3rd 2014 at 8:52:51 AM

Goku: And let's be honest, if you tried anything, pretty sure my granddaughter could kill you."

My various fanfics.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#8458: Dec 3rd 2014 at 11:24:10 AM

I've always thought it was rather funny that while Freeza, in the end, was still imo DBZ's greatest villain from a thematic and characterization standpoint, he becomes so hopelessly outclassed in every other respect that by the end of the series he's treated by the heroes like just some random thing that happened to the heroes a while ago. The flippant way "as strong as Freeza" is treated by the main characters (and Tarble's reaction) is really funny in the "Son Goku and his friends return" movie.

Happens a lot with long running shonen anime with lots of arc villains.

edited 3rd Dec '14 11:24:37 AM by KnownUnknown

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#8459: Dec 3rd 2014 at 11:59:10 AM

I like that Frieza, the Androids, Cell and Buu are all different types of villains. That actually goes a long way to me appreciating the Buu arc. It helps it not be more of the same. That's probably my problem with Super Buu, was that he was too similar to others.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#8460: Dec 3rd 2014 at 12:06:16 PM

In most shows it's nice to see the return of a villain that's been absent for a long time. But with DBZ and it's ridiculous adherance to My Kung-Fu Is Stronger Than Yours, yeah, pretty much what everyone else has said about how by all rights Freeza should be too weak to pose even the slightest threat. Also, I noticed that Beerus is on the poster so it looks like he's going to be a returning character in the "new movies."

Also, we were talking about wishes a while back and from what I remember in the movies Shenron always granted one wish, even after he was supposed to be granting two. Even in the Beerus movie Pilaf and co. were turned into kids with their only wish and Shenron expositing about a Super Saiyan God was also the only wish the others, got so Freeza returning is going to be the one wish Shenron will grant in that movie.

edited 3rd Dec '14 12:46:11 PM by WillKeaton

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#8461: Dec 3rd 2014 at 12:29:38 PM

Yeah, now that you bring it up, how did they stay as little kids, when they should have been able to use the second wish to undo it. And Shenron would have mentioned it right from the get go as well.

It can be easily explained as them somehow botching it despite that, cause lets be frank, if there is a way to fuck up, Pilaf will find it, but it's equally viable that it's a plot hole.

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#8462: Dec 3rd 2014 at 2:58:15 PM

Honestly, I get the impression that Freeza is getting some type of powerboost. Didn't he have a red aura similar to Super Saiyan God in the teaser?

That and Freeza is suppose to be the most popular villain in Japan.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#8463: Dec 3rd 2014 at 3:01:42 PM

Maybe the returning Frieza soldiers can exploit a wish-loophole and have Frieza return to life moments after he was killed, or maybe return his consciousness to a point before he faced Goku?

-

And then, how will the rules for the afterlife work in this new film.

A) If it's the manga, then as we've constantly been reminded, villains do not keep their bodies or hang out like bros in Hell. Frieza should have no way of knowing what Goku's been doing. He'll be revived and screaming from having been sliced in half.

B) Though if the film goes with the anime's depiction, Frieza could thesibly have kept up with Goku's major battles while in Hell (shown during the Kid Buu fight), and would thus be utterly unprepared for the power gap the Z-Fighters have created. He could have trained with Cell in Heffle, he could prepare.

Somehow I think the plot will resonate more if it's B instead of A, because if Frieza comes back screaming, from being sliced in half, well, that'd be hilarious, and kind of creepy.

-

And here's a potential problem: if Frieza is revived, will he be revived with his cybernetic parts, or will he be revived whole again, like on the film poster?

When Krillin and Goku were revived, neither had their impalements. Goku kept his original clothes despite taking them off, yet Krillin still had his damaged armor. 17, while he didn't reappear after being revived, was still very much a cyborg. And then there's Vegeta, but he was specifically given back his original body and allowed to walk in the mortal realm by Yemma before being brought back to life.

Frieza, though heavily wounded and on the brink of death, was outfitted with cybernetic parts while alive, and was only killed once they were already integrated. So how's that going to work? Final Form Frieza is clearly more symbolic than Mecha Frieza, the poster even features that form. Yet, since Frieza died in his cybernetic form, shouldn't the generic revival wish restore him to how he was/appeared right before he died (since he died without keeping his body?)

Unless Frieza's soldiers specifically wish for "Lord Frieza to be revived in his original body!"

edited 3rd Dec '14 3:34:29 PM by FOFD

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#8464: Dec 3rd 2014 at 3:21:30 PM

Krillin had implants?

But his chest was fine as is! What a nut.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#8465: Dec 3rd 2014 at 3:30:25 PM

Frieza should, I believe, be revived without his cybernetics. Resurrection seems to do a pretty thorough job of healing injuries, and the reason Frieza had his implants were to compensate for the damage sustained on Namek. As an example, Vegeta woke up on Namek without a gaping hole in his chest killing him again shortly thereafter.

The sticking point on that is Androids 17 and 18. While it's never explicitly confirmed that they're still cyborgs after their resurrections - 17 promptly leaves the plot forever shortly after being revived, while 18 doesn't die until Buu Saga and the plot ends not long after she's revived - it's never really refuted either, and it seems like something that would have come up if 18 was restored to full human.

edited 3rd Dec '14 3:33:02 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#8466: Dec 3rd 2014 at 3:37:26 PM

I would assume they still were since 18 charged Beerus in Battle of Gods and fought Goten and Trunks.

For plot convenience, I can see it.

edited 3rd Dec '14 3:39:20 PM by FOFD

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8467: Dec 3rd 2014 at 6:58:48 PM

Also, Movie 12's feat isn't so crazy - he one-shot Freeza, but he was very clearly not at 100% (no bulk) which means he was likely under 50% (where he has very slight bulk) which puts him more in the range of the base Saiyans. For the first half of his fight with Goku he was fighting evenly with base Namek Goku, Boo arc Gohan would have no trouble killing that in one punch.

@Wander I think Evil/Super Boo is significantly different to the previous villains. There's his parfait moment, random outbursts, and love of candy.

Freeza's the one with the most similarities. Pretty much a clone of Vegeta, and then Cell eventually ends up resembling him too much in his final form.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#8468: Dec 3rd 2014 at 7:50:02 PM

Those moments were more similar to regular Buu, though, weren't they? I feel like Super Buu was more "smug prick" like the other villains than the other stages of Buu, which were still mostly "destructive child". Super Buu had "destructive child", but a bit less so.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#8469: Dec 3rd 2014 at 11:36:42 PM

Well, Super Buu actually had an effective plan to be smug about.

A plan that almost failed...twice, and he reacted appropriately...the 1st time.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8470: Dec 4th 2014 at 4:37:14 AM

[up][up] That's what I mean though, he behaved much like regular Boo still. Only with more malice and trolling.

It wasn't until he started absorbing people that he acted all smug. Aside from how he explained his plan I feel his character became less interesting after that. Sick design tho, with Gotenks absorbed.

edited 4th Dec '14 4:37:26 AM by Saiga

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#8471: Dec 4th 2014 at 7:28:27 AM

Super Buu still seemed plenty childish to me, he was just - as noted - more of a bastard about it. Fat Buu is the self-involved kid who didn't realize he hurt your kid's feelings and apologized when he found out. Super Buu is the dipshit kid who beats up your kid on the playground to feel better about himself.

Pure Buu is distinctive for the many, many shits he does not give. Unlike past villains, he has nothing to prove. He doesn't play with his food, he doesn't respond to taunts, he can't be reasoned with or forestalled because he lacks a motivation in the first place. He is the pure incarnation of destruction.

edited 4th Dec '14 7:30:32 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#8472: Dec 4th 2014 at 7:52:39 AM

Super Buu struck me as being a lot like Buu's previous forms, except replacing destructive naivete and wild abandon with even more destructive, genuine sadism and intelligence. Even after absorbing the others, Buu was still a tantrum throwing, immature Manchild.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8474: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:09:51 AM

DBCEMBER: ICONIC MOMENTS OF DRAGONBALL #21

Damn you, filler!

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#8475: Dec 4th 2014 at 12:10:27 PM

TFS PLAYS: DBZ BUDOKAI 3 -09-

[up] That was kind of even more of a dick move since even if it had cut Cell he would have regenerated.

I mean. Krillin should at least have gotten that much.

EDIT: I like the fact that they talked about how everyone tried to kill Goku.

I kinda wish it was more often brought up that Bulma tried to kill Goku first time they met.

edited 4th Dec '14 6:24:19 PM by unnoun


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