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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#7701: Sep 5th 2014 at 11:40:42 AM

I wouldn't even say Tien bites off more than he can chew, as most of the time he's just sort of there. His spiteful comments in Abridged seem more like nibbling at enemies he knows he can't win against than any real biting, and once things come to blows, Tien is typically reduced to standing aside and watching other people fight.

His character arc hit its climax at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai when he fought and overcame Tao Pai Pai, thus breaking free of the shadows of his past and overcoming the man who was once his role model, back when he dreamed of becoming the greatest assassin in the world. Ever since, he's just sort of been one of the group, not contributing much more than a face and personality, and it's an awkward inclusion because he's not really part of the crew; he doesn't train with them or go to the social events, he's not a Kame student, etc.

Like Piccolo and Vegeta, he's not really one of the Nakama; he's a defeated enemy who crawls out of the woodwork whenever they need to assemble an Enemy Mine to face the latest threat, and over time everyone just got comfortable with seeing him there. However, unlike Piccolo and Vegeta, Tien has a tendency to do exactly one thing of merit in any storyarc outside the two Tenkaichi Budokais he competed in, and spend the entire rest of his time just watching people fight.

Basically: he's really only here to remind us he exists and, in Abridged, make snappy comments. The plot stopped having any need of him - and he stopped having any need of the plot - before the Saiyans ever even landed on Earth.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7702: Sep 5th 2014 at 12:04:46 PM

[up]I wouldn't say that. He spent years training with Yamcha and Krillin so he definitely formed a greater bond with them. In the Buu Saga, he was just showing up so we remember he exists. His importance in the story was downgraded in DBZ. I'd say he's more important... or at least gets a lot of screen time in the Cell Saga. Anyways, an argument can be made that the humans just stopped being important in the DBZ. Krillin got to be important in the Saiyan and Namek Arc. In the Cell Saga his biggest moment was when he decides not to destroy 18 and as such, Cell gets to absorb her. Tien gets one moment in 3 of the 4 Arcs, but they're usually rendered moot (shooting a massive energy blast at Nappa to show how powerful is when he tanks it, stalling Cell only for Vegeta to let Cell absorb 18 and saving Hercule and Dende only to be knocked out by Buu). And poor Yamcha's two biggest moments in DBZ were being killed by a Saibaman and being oneshotted by Dr. Gero.

I wouldn't say it's spiteful either. When he's out of his depths he knows it. Like when they were going up against Nappa he thinks about taking Chiaoutzou and bolting. The humans were a lot more important in Dragon Ball. Even Piccolo ended up being reduced to Saiyan babysitter by the end of the series.

edited 5th Sep '14 12:13:51 PM by 940131

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#7703: Sep 5th 2014 at 12:23:25 PM

You think DBZA will have someone mention to Krillin that they could always just use the Dragon Balls to revived 18 and make her Good? There doesn't seem to be a limit to what Shenron can't do in the Abridged series.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#7704: Sep 5th 2014 at 12:24:39 PM

huh.would "make X a good guy" work without them being dead?

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#7705: Sep 5th 2014 at 12:30:08 PM

Would shutting her off count as being "dead"?

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7707: Sep 5th 2014 at 2:22:34 PM

I'm just wondering about how they're going to handle Hercule. He should be coming up soon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#7708: Sep 5th 2014 at 2:27:21 PM

I'd say he's more important... or at least gets a lot of screen time in the Cell Saga.

It's the latter. Tien gets a lot of screentime in the Cell Saga, but it's screentime spent being present while other people do things. He's present while Trunks fights Frieza, he's present while Goku fights the Androids and Vegeta kills 19, he's present for Piccolo's fight with 20, he fails to find Gero's lab with Piccolo, he's present for the Androids' awakening, for Vegeta's curbstomp from 18, for the plan to use the Ro Sa T, for the Cell Games, etc. etc.

Tien gets tons of screentime in the Cell Saga but spends nearly all of it as a spectator. By contrast, he may have died quickly and pointlessly during the fight with Nappa - and missed Raditz entirely by virtue of not being one of the Nakama and therefore not going to the reunion at Kame House - but he did get to fight and kill the first Saibaman - before being immediately outdone by Krillin killing three of them at once as vengeance for Yamcha.

It's not exclusive to Cell Saga either. Tien has a weird thing where he contributes EXACTLY ONE THING in every arc, outside the Tenkaichi Budokais. Against Piccolo Daimao, he was present for Master Roshi failing to use the Mafuba against Piccolo, and then he was present for Goku's fight with Piccolo. He contributed exactly one thing, wherein he grabbed Goku and pulled him out of the way of an explosive attack that would have killed him.

In the Saiyan Saga, his one contribution was the defeat of a Saibaman. In Cell Saga, it's his holding back of Cell using his Kikoho. In Buu Saga, it's his out-of-nowhere appearance to distract Super Buu. He didn't have a contribution on Namek because he wasn't there for Namek, getting his spectating done by proxy through Kaio-sama, but that's Tien in a nutshell. He's always around when the shit hits the fan, but he's mostly there just to watch and react.

Like Yamcha, I get the feeling Toriyama just didn't know what to do with Tien. His story concluded pretty early in his character history, he wasn't a Kame Student, he wasn't a villain anymore, he was quickly outpaced by the scale of the conflict, and he lacked any motivation beyond the generic "fight dudes, get stronger". End result was that, also like Yamcha, he just wound up drifting around aimlessly with no real purpose or relevance to the story.

Given that, I consider it no coincidence that Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Tien were killed almost immediately after the fight with the Saiyans began, while Krillin, Piccolo, and Gohan - all characters who still had running plotlines and story relevancy - kept right on trucking; Krillin and Gohan even making it all the way to the end and contributing hugely against Vegeta, while Piccolo's death was treated with much more dramatic impetus than the, "SUCKS, they're dead" that the other three got.

Krillin got to be important in the Saiyan and Namek Arc. In the Cell Saga his biggest moment was when he decides not to destroy 18 and as such, Cell gets to absorb her.

His biggest moment in the Cell Saga is the fact that he developed a romance with Android 18 at all. This was the climax of Krillin's personal arc. He started studying martial arts because he wanted to impress women, and lamented his loneliness several times throughout the series. Krillin was lonely and longed for companionship, and falling in love with Android 18 brought that storyline to a close.

The Cell Saga didn't have much need for Krillin, but Krillin's own personal character arc had great need of the Cell Saga. He didn't have much to do in the Buu Saga because, like Tien and Piccolo at that point, his story was done; there was nothing left for him to do but just sort of be present while things are happening.

edited 5th Sep '14 2:35:42 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7709: Sep 5th 2014 at 3:24:49 PM

1) Well, being outdone is a way of saying it. Tien was more powerful than Krillin at that point as confirmed by the PL's.

2) Well. I agree about the Buu Saga. You were saying before that Tien's around just so people remember he exists and I don't really agree with that in most cases, but the Buu Saga is the exception. Tien gets mentioned by Gohan when hes gathering the Nakama to meet Goku, Goku mentions Tien when he gets to the Tournament and asks where he is, Krillin mentions him when they're all on Kami's Tower, we see him reacting to SSJ 3, dodging Super Buu's extinction attack and then he shows up to save Dende and Hercule, gets knocked out, healed and we don't see him again until the world is saved.

3) Eh? I disagree. PL wise he was relevant up until the end of DB or beginning of DBZ.

4) Let's be fair. A lot of characters have that generic motivation in this story including the main character.

Given that, I consider it no coincidence that Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Tien were killed almost immediately after the fight with the Saiyans began, while Krillin, Piccolo, and Gohan - all characters who still had running plotlines and story relevancy - kept right on trucking; Krillin and Gohan even making it all the way to the end and contributing hugely against Vegeta, while Piccolo's death was treated with much more dramatic impetus than the, "SUCKS, they're dead" that the other three got.

Krillin got to be important in the Saiyan and Namek Arc. In the Cell Saga his biggest moment was when he decides not to destroy 18 and as such, Cell gets to absorb her.

His biggest moment in the Cell Saga is the fact that he developed a romance with Android 18 at all. This was the climax of Krillin's personal arc. He started studying martial arts because he wanted to impress women, and lamented his loneliness several times throughout the series. Krillin was lonely and longed for companionship, and falling in love with Android 18 brought that storyline to a close. The Cell Saga didn't have much need for Krillin, but Krillin's own personal character arc had great need of the Cell Saga. He didn't have much to do in the Buu Saga because, like Tien and Piccolo at that point, his story was done; there was nothing left for him to do but just sort of be present while things are happening.

5) I suppose that's true about Krillin, but in that same sense it could be said that Tien's arc came to an end there too. With him accepting that he wouldn't be able to help save the way in a big way anymore and leaving. We see him watch Cell, Piccolo and the Androids fight and struggles with his uselessness, steps up anyway and pours everything he had into holding him off only for it to come to naught.

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#7710: Sep 5th 2014 at 4:06:06 PM

[up][up]He didn't even kill that Saibaman, Vegeta did because it didn't go all out from the beginning.

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7711: Sep 5th 2014 at 4:18:21 PM

[up]Actually, Vegeta killed him because he said it had already lost the fight and Tien was too strong for it.

edited 5th Sep '14 4:18:51 PM by 940131

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#7712: Sep 5th 2014 at 4:19:26 PM

[up]I like Tien, he's one of my favorites actually, but you can't deny that he, along with most of the other non-Krillin humans, really didn't get to do much when Z started.

You seem to be coming off as sort of defensive to me, though.

edited 5th Sep '14 4:20:02 PM by KBSL

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7713: Sep 5th 2014 at 4:55:44 PM

Indeed, Kuririn surpassed Ten with the Guru power up and stayed that way for the rest of the series. That's said by Yamcha, Toriyama, and guidebooks.

There is literally no evidence that Ten ever surpassed Kuririn again. Just saying nothing proves he didn't get ridiculous gains from Mountain Training is not an argument. Burden of proof is on you if you want to make an argument for Ten catching up.

@KBSL I definitely agree with this.

@unnoun The Daizenshuu seems to support this when recounting Goku surviving Bulma's bullet, for what it's worth to you.

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7714: Sep 5th 2014 at 5:08:12 PM

Not that I want to get back into this, but it hthat all Toriyama said was as the strongest human and Tien is Ambiguously Human. In addition, Yamcha hadn't seen Tien for 7 years and may not have been including him.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7715: Sep 5th 2014 at 5:11:03 PM

No, he said strongest Earthling. Ten has always been counted as one of the Earthlings, in series and in guidebooks. The 'only source for him having alien heritage still labels him as an Earthling.

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7716: Sep 5th 2014 at 6:40:10 PM

When do you guys think the next episode will come out?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#7717: Sep 5th 2014 at 6:44:22 PM

Let's not do that.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#7719: Sep 5th 2014 at 8:07:35 PM

Because the "when's the next episode" game, when we just got one recently, and when their website has a progress reporter, is really disrespectful to the work they put in and the fact that they have lives to live.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#7720: Sep 5th 2014 at 8:15:26 PM

There's a progress meter on the site, but I haven't looked at it. It's still hard to say when the next episode comes out (albeit, on-topic).

As to "why not", its been a thing recently that fans asking demanding new episodes is harmful to the creators. Executive Meddling, just replace "executive" with "audience".

940131 Since: Feb, 2014
#7721: Sep 5th 2014 at 8:28:54 PM

[up][up]Not really. I just asked when it would be coming out. I didn't complain about them taking too long and say they should hurry up.

[up]When I see people complaining about how long they take or bashing them for it, I always tell them to stop. There's nothing wrong with wondering when the episode will come out though.

edited 5th Sep '14 8:30:46 PM by 940131

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#7722: Sep 5th 2014 at 8:29:19 PM

Renegade for Life: Super Wagon Adventure Turbo

That is the strangest thing I've seen all day.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#7723: Sep 5th 2014 at 9:25:22 PM

You know what the saddest thing about that video...Guy was female.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#7724: Sep 5th 2014 at 9:26:45 PM

I didn't really catch that till the end.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#7725: Sep 5th 2014 at 9:28:02 PM

Same here.

The Reaper Games starts anew.

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