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Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5051: Nov 20th 2013 at 1:42:27 PM

Tien's eye is definitely an actual third eye. He used it when he fought Goku to help track his movements or something.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5052: Nov 20th 2013 at 3:08:40 PM

Kuririn is officially stronger than Tenshinhan after Namek. Though this is only said once in the manga, Toriyama has said so in an interview and it is repeated in multiple official sources.

Also, Tenshinhan wasn't very useful before Raditz showed up either. He did three useful things - helped Goku evade one of Piccolo Daimao's attacks, returned Goku's stick to him, and made a hole in the ground for everyone to hide in when Piccolo Jr did his huge explosion. And in the first example, that was immediately negated by him being taken hostage and Goku suffering more damage than he would have otherwise.

ClassyMyths Since: Oct, 2011
#5053: Nov 20th 2013 at 4:28:48 PM

[up]I've never seen that. Do you have some sources?

As for Krillin's potential being unlocked pushing him ahead of Tien... that might be true, but Tien's PL after the Saiyan Saga is unknown so all we know for sure is that Tien was stronger in the Saiyan Saga. Even if Krillin surpassed him on Namek, I have a hard time seeing him staying ahead after 17 years without training.

He kept them all alive. That's pretty useful. Not to mention creating Solar Flare. How many times has that technique saved the group?

edited 20th Nov '13 4:31:32 PM by ClassyMyths

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5054: Nov 20th 2013 at 4:38:10 PM

Yamcha said that Kuririn is the strongest among Earthlings in the Boo arc, Toriyama says it in the 2004 Tenkaichi Densetsu interview, however it was already well known before then that Kuririn was the strongest Earthling. Tenshinhan IS an Earthling, by the way, some people try to excuse this by saying he's an alien, but the exact same source that says he has alien heritage also says that he's an Earthling (he's only descended from descendants of aliens).

Kuririn's Bio in the Battle of Gods pamphlet says once again that he's the strongest Earthling, as do most of his official Bios. Video games repeat this, of note is that during Tenshinhan's story in Budokai 3 he says himself that Kuririn is stronger than him. This story is set after the Boo arc.

I'd be terribly surprised if Tenshinhan did surpass him after their training. Prior to the Namek arc, Kuririn was never far behind Tenshinhan (Kuririn's Saiyan arc Battle Power was 1770, Tenshinhan's was 1830) and prior to Guru's unlocking Kuririn jumped up immediately to 13,000 and continued to grow stronger over time, so that by the time of the Freeza battle his power level was 75,000. That's a big gap for Tenshinhan to make up when all he has is some training at Kaio's and training on Earth, using inferior methods. And Kuririn didn't stop training until the 7 year gap between the Cell and Boo arcs, so it's no surprise that Tenshinhan never caught up.

Also, there's no evidence that Tenshinhan invented the Taiyo-ken, but it's identified in the guidebooks as being a crane school technique rather than one of Tenshinhan's own.

I'm not saying he's useless, but he didn't get to be much more useful in DB than he did in Z.

edited 20th Nov '13 4:40:42 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#5055: Nov 20th 2013 at 7:12:42 PM

Well, Tien was the first to display the Solar Flare, so even if he isn't its inventor, he is the one who introduced the technique to the other main characters.

Along with flying, come to think of it.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5056: Nov 20th 2013 at 7:15:08 PM

I'm aware, but I don't see that as an argument for him being useful. He didn't teach them to it, they copied it, and according to Kuririn it's just really easy to do. It's very indirectly helping them.

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Court Dragon
#5057: Nov 20th 2013 at 7:19:29 PM

Wasn't using it as an argument of anything. Just pointing something out, is all.

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ClassyMyths Since: Oct, 2011
#5058: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:20:52 PM

@Saiga There was a pretty massive gap between Krillin and Tien between his first appearance and the beginning of Z and Tien is at best Ambiguously Human. The Databook says he's from the Triclops alien race.

You're reaching. They copied Tien's technique and it kept them alive on multiple occasions.

edited 20th Nov '13 10:38:22 PM by ClassyMyths

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#5059: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:22:48 PM

The what.

That makes little sense and is never mentioned in the show. I prefer his third eye being indicative of Enlightenment Superpowers.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5060: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:25:12 PM

No, it doesn't. That databook, the Daizenshuu, is said that he's a descendant of the Three Eyed Clan, who were descendants of aliens. And it says that he's an Earthling.

As I said, the only source for him having alien heritage also call him an Earthling. And saying he has the third eye also might contradict what Toriyama said on the matter in Ask Akira Toriyama! :

(11) What's up with the third eye on my main man Tenshinhan? Is Tenshinhan human?
- Charles Moyer, California; Evan Coltin, Via Internet
T: In certain parts of Asia, beings with a third eye on their forehead are thought to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin [Crane Hermit], lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes.

I don't see how I'm reaching. It's not originally Tenshinhan's technique, and they copied it without any input from him. To say that is an example of him being useful is no different to how all antagonists are useful because they make the heroes get stronger.

edited 20th Nov '13 10:26:43 PM by Saiga

ClassyMyths Since: Oct, 2011
#5061: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:25:59 PM

[up][up]It's not indicated in the show that he's human either.

edited 20th Nov '13 10:31:21 PM by ClassyMyths

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5062: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:32:48 PM

Nor is it indicated that he's an alien. Remember that in Dragon Ball, Earthlings include things like the Dog King or Pilaf. Or Chaozu. Or Kuririn having no nose.

Also, just to clear something up, Dragon Ball uses "human" to describe all humanoid races, including Saiyans, and Earthlings to describe the ones we would consider human.

I'd have to comb through the manga again to see if Tenshinhan has ever been referred to as an Earthling.

ClassyMyths Since: Oct, 2011
#5063: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:36:50 PM

For your quote about the third eye... Goku had a tail because he was based of of Sun Wukong. Things changed. It doesn't say that he's not an alien. That's was just where he got the idea of a three eyed character. And I just read one of the Daizenshuu pages where it mentions Tien's three eyed ancestry. It said that he's an alien descended from the Triclops race. That could be anything from his father and mother to distant ancestors.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5064: Nov 20th 2013 at 10:45:28 PM

Yes, but Goku was actually revealed to be an alien. Tenshinhan wasn't.

Also, where did you read this? Because the Daizenshuu after the first are only in Japanese and French, and the French translation is inaccurate. The Daizenshuu does not say he is the alien. Using Herms' translations, Daizenshuu 4 says:

It's a small wonder then that Tenshinhan is a descendent of the Three-Eyed people, themselves the posterity of aliens, and that he has a unique physical composition as a throwback to his ancestors.

Which is where I got the "descendant of descendants of aliens". This is the Earthlings section of Daizenshuu 4. And, to make it clearer, this is how the Earthlings section opens:

EARTHLINGS
The Earthling martial artists that came to fight alongside Goku throughout the long story. There are those who challenge their limits, those who fight for honor, and the like. Martial Artists: Gyuumao, Mister Satan, Videl, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, Yamcha, Chi Chi, Son Gohan, Kame-sennin, Uub, Tao Pai Pai, Mutaito, and Tsure-sennin

Here's a link to Herms' translations, through wayback machine.

Ah, Daizenshuu 7 actually identifies the Three-Eyed people/clan as being aliens themselves. It's not surprising, then, that some would mistakenly translate that across as Tenshinhan being an alien descendant of the Three-Eyed people instead of a descendant of the alien Three-Eyed people.

edited 20th Nov '13 10:47:29 PM by Saiga

ClassyMyths Since: Oct, 2011
#5065: Nov 21st 2013 at 12:01:50 PM

[up]Goku's the main character and Piccolo was connected to the Dragon Balls.

The French translation is inaccurate? How so? Even if the it only said that he's of alien descent, it doesn't mean that he's being counted when they say that Krillin is the strongest human. Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. only had distant Saiyan ancestry, but would we call them humans?

edited 21st Nov '13 12:16:48 PM by ClassyMyths

Bloodsquirrel Since: May, 2011
#5066: Nov 21st 2013 at 1:39:46 PM

@Saiga There was a pretty massive gap between Krillin and Tien between his first appearance and the beginning of Z and Tien is at best Ambiguously Human. The Databook says he's from the Triclops alien race.

When Tien first shows up he's stronger, but Krillin is close enough behind that he's able to give Goku a decent fight (and even Tien admitted that he couldn't fight Goku head-on). Yamcha, of course, got owned.

By the next tournament, Krillin was giving a pretty good showing against Piccolo, while Goku was basically playing around with Tien. Yamcha, of course, got owned. So even before Z the gap was never really that big.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#5067: Nov 21st 2013 at 1:43:08 PM

Guys, I was just making a point that Krillin being the strongest came off as an Informed Ability. tongue

Bloodsquirrel Since: May, 2011
#5068: Nov 21st 2013 at 1:53:17 PM

[up]I don't really see how. He does more during the Frieza arc than the rest of them do in the rest of the series combined, he clearly surpasses anything they've showed before with his Guru powerup, and what after that would indicate that one of them has surpassed him again?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5069: Nov 21st 2013 at 2:49:54 PM

[up][up][up][up] God and Piccolo were revealed to be aliens before the idea of other Namekian Dragon Balls was even brought up in the story. The revelation was during the 23rd Budokai, and had nothing to do with the Dragon Balls at the time. If Tenshinhan was an alien, it WOULD have been mentioned.

We have every reason to believe he's Earthling and as I've said, the only things to hint towards alien ancestry also call him an Earthling anyway.

[up] The only thing I can think of Movie 9, which shows Tenshinhan fighting evenly with base Trunks (which is just your regular movie bullshit) and the Shin Kikoho stalling Cell (which doesn't prove anything about Ten's strength, but everyone loves making a big deal out of that).

edited 21st Nov '13 2:59:34 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#5070: Nov 21st 2013 at 3:16:23 PM

Wait, was that revealed at the time?

I recall that Kami and Piccolo spoke in their native language, but the fact that it was an alien language isn't something I remember being specified.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5071: Nov 21st 2013 at 3:34:11 PM

I was actually thinking of the conversation God had with Yamcha, but I had misremembered. God said he wasn't an Earthling, to which Yamcha asked if he was an alien, but I had thought God confirmed it when he just avoided the question instead.

So yeah, I guess I was wrong, it is the Saiyan arc that confirms that Piccolo and God are aliens. Still happens before the Namekian Dragon Balls come up (start of arc vs end of arc) so it's a pretty weak excuse for Tenshinhan never being mentioned.

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#5072: Nov 21st 2013 at 4:41:16 PM

So, I just finished watching Legend of Gods and I have to say in regards to Bulma and Bills and Chi Chi and Buu, saiyans like marrying stupid, impulsive women don't they?

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#5075: Nov 21st 2013 at 6:11:04 PM

I do like how their plays of horror games are "Vegeta Makes Krillin Play ____".

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