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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4801: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:01:29 PM

As I said, his ki is as large as Recoome's. That's all we need to know he's as powerful. So yes, for Goku to take on 2 Recoome level fighters at once is more impressive than taking on 1, and for Vegeta to easily take one out when before he struggled to lose against 1 is also impressive.

[up][up] It's a world of difference when it comes from someone else who can factually measure their strength against each other to someone just boasting.

[up] I'm not saying it was good writing, just that it didn't actually need to be shown for us to know. It's not possible for him not to be as strong as Recoome, even though he didn't show it.

edited 26th Sep '13 8:03:03 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4802: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:02:54 PM

[up] It doesn't matter what anyone says. We never see any of it. Therefore it doesn't matter.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4803: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:02:56 PM

Yes, he has. He's had several characters state that he's as strong as the guy who smashed all three heroes.

Oh, and problem with your power level tirade. You said:

"This is pretty consistent every time we hear things like, "Power level of 1 million, " or "I'm only using 50% of my strength." Increasing your power level thousands and thousands of times will very slightly increase the strength of your punches and let you make ki attacks that are a couple feet wider in diameter - which, incidentally, makes the actual impact of the attack weaker, not stronger."

That's not true. Making yourself thousands of times stronger doesn't make you a little stronger... it makes you a lot stronger. Doing something as little as adding a THIRD to your power level will allow you to completely and utterly annihilate someone who was your equal before. Doubling your power allows you to annihilate someone who was just kicking your ass up and down the planet before. Et cetera.

And the whole thing about feats never getting more impressive is wrong too. Even ignoring guidebook, DBO, and character statements that say that SS 2-tier and higher characters can destroy stars, Pure Buu, with a casual one handed blast, destroyed Earth in such a way that the debris were scattered in similar fashion to the destruction of Alderran in Star Wars. Someone went out of their way to calculate what the debris of the explosion suggested; from it, they got that his attack must have been at least' 400,000 times the power that is needed to destroy the Earth. So no, Freeza blowing up Vegeta or Namek doesn't invalidate Pure Buu pulling off a feat literally thousands of times more impressive.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#4804: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:11:53 PM

Goku had to triple his power level just to equal Vegeta, then quadruple his power level to overpower his Galick Gun. So you'd think, before he used the Kaioken, Vegeta could annihilate Goku by blinking at him too hard, right? Nope. Goku managed to fight Vegeta just fine. He was losing, but he certainly didn't get Yamcha'd.

Krillin, of all people, could have killed Frieza. And no, increasing your powerful doesn't make a lot of difference. It makes a little bit of difference. It takes you from "fighting very hard and slowly losing" to "fighting very hard and slowly winning". Frieza doubled his power level against Super Saiyan Goku, and this was enough to take him from "losing" to "losing a little bit less overtly". Meanwhile, what actually increases your power level is so random as to be completely sporadic and meaningless.

As for several characters stating that Jeice is as strong as Recoome, it doesn't matter. He didn't show it. His power level is X! Well, his power level is meaningless. Krillin can kill Frieza, all statements of "X is dangerous because he has a power level of Y" are empty.

edited 26th Sep '13 8:12:30 PM by TobiasDrake

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#4805: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:14:24 PM

I disagree with Tobias, and care too little to make further arguments (because aside from Saiga's weaboo naming conventions, he's made my points).

I really like Pikkon (and he should fusion dance with Piccolo), but King Cold makes this video.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4806: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:16:23 PM

No, he was completely getting Yamcha'd. Vegeta was fooling around and still beating Goku to a pulp. And Goku only fought without kaio-ken for... actually, wait, no, he never fought Vegeta without kaio-ken. And adding a third on to his power level brought him from "being slowly overpowered by the Galick Gun" to "instantly and easily blasting back the Galick Gun and sending Vegeta into the sky, despite already being injured and fatigued".

No, it brings you from "getting stomped" to "beating the shit out of whoever was stomping you before". See: Vegeta, Buutenks, Goku... everyone. Prime example: Gohan shows up. Stomps Buu. Buu roughly doubles his strength. Stomps Gohan.

No, it was enough to take him from "can't even budge Goku's face with a clean hit" to "can make Goku bleed". And Freeza didn't double his strength, he went from 70% to 100%.

Krillin can only kill Freeza using a super special technique while Freeza is an artificially created and ridiculously suppressed form.

Oh, and Buuhan killed Vegetto.

[up] Pikkon can't fuse with Piccolo. Piccolo's far too weak; the fusees have to be relatively close in power.

edited 26th Sep '13 8:22:32 PM by sockpuppet1

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4807: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:17:16 PM

Vegeta could have easily beaten Goku, he just wasn't trying at the beginning. When he actually puts out his full effort, he manhandles Kaio-ken x2 Goku and that's when Goku was forced to use the Kaio-ken x3. Pretty clear.

And you're acting like the Kienzan is Kuririn himself. No, it isn't. It's just the technique that allows him to cut someone many times stronger than him, it's not like he can kill Freeza another way.

And Freeza doubling his power didn't help because Goku was more than double Freeza's strength. However, he did actually use more effort to pummel 100% Freeza as opposed to 50-70% Freeza.

The Kienzan can kill Freeza, but Goku and Vegeta didn't use that to beat Jheese. They used their own strength. Oh, and the Kienzan can only kill Freeza if it hits him, and Freeza still dodged the technique from behind.

[up][up] Seriously, man, can you just leave me alone over that?

edited 26th Sep '13 8:21:11 PM by Saiga

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#4808: Sep 26th 2013 at 8:57:32 PM

Sorry, intended to humorously give you a hard time.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4809: Sep 26th 2013 at 10:17:43 PM

Getting wrecked by Goku, him having just come from Ultimate Training(tm), really doesn't say anything. It's like saying "This guy died to just one nuke! What a weakling!" Yes, it takes the guy down, but it's so far beyond that person's level, and that of what you were previously being compared to, that it tells you nothing.

edited 26th Sep '13 10:19:26 PM by Enlong

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Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#4810: Sep 28th 2013 at 5:55:22 AM

Whoa whoa whoa.
Super Buu killed Vegito? What?
Vegito was the clear superior in that fight. He allowed himself to be absorbed and even then Vegeta and Goku both made it out OK. I'd say alive, but Vegeta was already dead for the whole ordeal.

Also, he look at this. Wow. Look at that. I don't actually think it looks good, but look who's on the cover! Fuck yeah!

edited 28th Sep '13 5:57:01 AM by Zeromaeus

maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#4811: Sep 28th 2013 at 6:10:44 AM

[up]Oh there's no way that's gonna be balanced. Either Bills is gonna be just as horribly overpowered as he was in the movie, or they're gonna have to turn him into a wimp.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#4812: Sep 28th 2013 at 6:15:16 AM

I'm fine if he's strong as all hell.
Though since it runs on a team thing, maybe he takes more than one slot.

Super Vegito is also DLC.
Balance? What is?

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4813: Sep 28th 2013 at 6:42:50 AM

I recall Supersonic Warriors having SS 3 Gotenks as playable. He was insanely overpowered, but he had no teammates and died after a time limit ran out.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4814: Sep 28th 2013 at 6:56:20 AM

Games never follow the balance of the series, otherwise they'd be horribly broken. They do usually give higher stats to stronger characters, but the difference is rather small. Beers and Super Saiyan God will just have higher stats than everyone else.

[up] heh, yeah. For a long time I didn't even know he had a drawback because it's so easy to beat the CPU within the timeline with his insane damage output.

edited 28th Sep '13 6:58:15 AM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4815: Sep 28th 2013 at 8:47:54 AM

The strongest charcter in the series is named "Beers"? Heh. I'd expect that from Zun, maybe. That's kinda funny.

edited 28th Sep '13 8:48:04 AM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#4816: Sep 28th 2013 at 10:40:08 AM

[up]I think his American name will be Bills. I just like that the final final Bonus Boss of DBZ is called "Bill".

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#4817: Sep 28th 2013 at 11:05:03 AM

The video games let you have Yamcha defeat Omega Shenron if you so desire.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4818: Sep 28th 2013 at 11:07:26 AM

Beating Beers with Hercule must be a thing.

maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#4819: Sep 28th 2013 at 11:16:48 AM

[up][up]And if you've got fast thumbs.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4820: Sep 28th 2013 at 11:27:14 AM

Reminds me of Budokai's Hercule Mode.

Or the what-if stories.

I have a message from another time...
TropayXion The i. one. from HEART Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
The i. one.
#4821: Sep 28th 2013 at 1:02:18 PM

Popo vs Bills would be an amazing thing to see.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4822: Sep 28th 2013 at 1:46:54 PM

Whoa whoa whoa.

Super Buu killed Vegito? What?

Vegito was the clear superior in that fight. He allowed himself to be absorbed and even then Vegeta and Goku both made it out OK. I'd say alive, but Vegeta was already dead for the whole ordeal.

Vegetto let himself get absorbed, but he did not let himself get killed. Buu's body killed him by making Vegetto cease to exist, which Buu was counting on (given his unsurprised reaction to seeing the two unfuse) and Vegetto wasn't expecting (pretty sure his last words were something like "Whoooooa", and then his fusees were like "wtf just happened?"). And regardless, even if he DID let himself, he still ceased to exist, so Buu still killed Vegetto.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4823: Sep 28th 2013 at 2:34:35 PM

That's...

...

Well, it's true.

From a certain point of view.

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#4824: Sep 28th 2013 at 2:40:13 PM

I think killing "Vegito" in such a way that Goku and Vegeta survive afterwards is a rather pointless distinction personally.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4825: Sep 28th 2013 at 2:43:07 PM

And he probably wsn't surprised they were there after they, you know, went into his brain and fought the projections he had up there. He didn't, for example, know that they couldn't fuse again until after Goku blabbed.

edited 28th Sep '13 2:43:39 PM by Enlong

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