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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4451: Aug 2nd 2013 at 8:53:40 PM

Because Saiyans were a proud and somewhat socially primitive warrior race likely to be more interested with proliferating than limiting their reproduction?

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4452: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:36:09 PM

@Tobias It was never said that they weren't training, but they weren't training as hard as they would have if they were preparing for a threat. Things like Vegeta training in gravity or Goku/Piccolo/Gohan going into the mountains for 3 years only happened because of Trunks' warning.

And Gohan implies at the Cell Games that Tenshinhan and Yamcha can't be brought back by Earth's Dragon Balls, even though they were wished back by the Namekian Dragon Balls. Also, it's not really necessary that Goku got much stronger than he was on Namek to be stronger than Trunks. For all we know Trunks was weaker than Namek Goku, in fact that's implied by the manga version of the Trunks special (maybe the anime version too, but I haven't seen that).

@Beary Scary Vegeta was stumped by soap earlier, so I guess it's just that aliens lack a lot of the things humans have.

edited 2nd Aug '13 9:42:48 PM by Saiga

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#4453: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:41:09 PM

....Don't you mean Namek dragon balls for the Tien's and Yamcha's revive?

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#4455: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:44:49 PM

It's okay we all make mistakes.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#4456: Aug 2nd 2013 at 10:40:11 PM

I'd laugh if Vegeta did know what Space Soap and Space Condoms were.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
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#4457: Aug 3rd 2013 at 12:33:27 PM

Space "X": Its like "X" in Space.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#4458: Aug 3rd 2013 at 9:17:33 PM

How can Trunks be weaker than Namek Goku? Did Freeza take a huge drop to his power when he was mechanized? Trunks Curbstomped Freeza effortlessly.

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edited 3rd Aug '13 9:18:29 PM by TobiasDrake

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#4459: Aug 3rd 2013 at 9:26:26 PM

Goku trained while he was out.

[down]King Cold was fresh as the morning dew, though.

edited 4th Aug '13 8:34:00 PM by wanderlustwarrior

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
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#4460: Aug 4th 2013 at 8:24:03 PM

[up][up]Goku got stronger, from healing(Power boost/zenkai)and training on that alien planet. Trunks was probably slightly stronger than Goku when he first turned SSJ. Freeza had a noticable decrease in power and was on advanced mobile life support to stay alive.

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MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#4461: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:02:16 PM

[up]I though that going cyborg actually increased Freeza's max power level. Or was that just from the English dub? Of course, he started the Trunks business totally overconfident, and IIRC went into full Villainous Breakdown mode as soon as he went Super Saiyan, so I don't think he was at any point in a mental state to win that fight (and while I have no real idea when the last time King Cold was in a situation where he life was seriously threatened, I'd wager it was in no way recently).

edited 4th Aug '13 9:02:27 PM by MasterGhandalf

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#4462: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:11:12 PM

DBZ Wiki has this to say on the subject.

These enhancements allowed him to exceed the limits imposed by his fully organic form, though by how much or in what way is unknown. In the original manga, Gohan mentioned that he was nowhere near the power he displayed against Goku, but Vegeta said he was much stronger than before.

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TheEvilDrBolty Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
#4463: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:18:12 PM

Well, Freeza was seemingly locked in his more lithe form as a cyborg - without the beefiness that he acquired by going to maximum power. Only indication I could see that he was weaker rather than stronger, and not even a very strong piece of evidence.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#4464: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:48:54 PM

I think he was able to be as strong as his beefy state despite being in his more lithe state while a cyborg, though.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4465: Aug 4th 2013 at 11:49:53 PM

Mecha Freeza was stated to be stronger than he was before his modification, however Gohan said this wasn't his full power when he was approaching Earth. He wasn't at 100% power, probably using a lower percentage like when he fought base Goku on Namek. Vegeta never said he was stronger in the manga, either.

When Trunks confronts Freeza, he tells him to come at him at full power from the start because he's not soft like Goku. Freeza scoffs at this and doesn't power up, so he gets his shit screwed sideways by Trunks.

Remember also that there was a big gap in battle power between Goku and Freeza during their final battle on Namek. Goku was at 150 million to Freeza's 120 million. Trunks and Mecha Freeza could both fit in between that gap (but we never saw Mecha Freeza's full power, anyway).

edited 4th Aug '13 11:50:54 PM by Saiga

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
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#4466: Aug 5th 2013 at 12:15:41 AM

Yeah Freeza was stronger he just did not get a chance to go all out and show that he was stronger.

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#4467: Aug 5th 2013 at 12:20:24 AM

So basically Frieza dropped the ball?

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4468: Aug 5th 2013 at 12:26:07 AM

[up]evil grin

In his defence he'd be dead either way, powering up would only prolong his death.

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#4469: Aug 5th 2013 at 5:16:06 PM

Either way, the androids would of probably killed him if Trunks or goku didn't (Though whether Android 19 or Doctor Gero could is still debatable).

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#4470: Aug 5th 2013 at 5:50:22 PM

If Trunks or Goku didn't kill him, the androids would never exist. Frieza would have killed everyone, then killed Yamcha a second time just for the lulz, then maybe wished for immortality if he had the foresight to realize the Earth had Dragon Balls, and then blown up the planet out of spite and gone back to his day-to-day life as a monstrous, evil dictator.

edited 5th Aug '13 5:51:51 PM by TobiasDrake

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RSLee Since: Feb, 2011
#4471: Aug 5th 2013 at 11:28:00 PM

Okay, I'm going to have to come up with a new headcanon. The idea of Frieza failing to kill anybody is just too depressing.

wild mass guessTrunk's timeline is not actually the original time line. The original timeline (Universe-A) is one where Frieza and his dad successfully killed the Z-Fighters and conquered Earth. However, Bulma-A survived this conquering and gave birth to her own Trunks. Trunks-A proceeded to travel back in time to destroy Frieza nice and early, creating Universe-B. But since there were no androids in Universe-A, he didn't bother sticking around after Frieza's death, causing the Z-Fighters to be killed later anyways when Gero created his Androids. Universe-B's Trunks then proceeds to time travel as well, destroying Frieza again and warning the others of the Androids, creating Universe-C (The current timeline that we follow on the show.)

Okay, my personal mental-retcon is complete. I no longer have to live with the knowledge that there is a universe where Yamcha survived a fight against Frieza.

edited 5th Aug '13 11:28:54 PM by RSLee

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4472: Aug 5th 2013 at 11:58:50 PM

In his defence he'd be dead either way, powering up would only prolong his death.

Indeed. Even if he and Cold beat Trunks, Goku could've teleported there at any time.

King Cold was fresh as the morning dew, though.

King Cold just wasn't that strong. He was said to be strong enough to help Freeza in a fight, but he admitted inferiority to Freeza several times. In battle power terms, he can be as low as, say, 90 million, which would let him help against someone at 150 million but still get killed in one hit by that same person if he tried to confront them alone, like he did.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#4473: Aug 6th 2013 at 12:01:59 AM

[up][up] Too bad, that goes against what the story itself says. Freeza failed just as badly in every timeline to ever exist.waiiwaiiwaiiwaiiwaiiwaiiwaii

[up] Furthermore, Freeza and Cold can't sense ki, so they may not even be correct about their estimation that they'd defeat Namek Goku together.

edited 6th Aug '13 12:03:14 AM by Saiga

minespatch Since: Sep, 2009
#4474: Aug 6th 2013 at 12:26:01 AM

Is this turning into the general thread again? I'm trying to catch up, but as a person who's only read the first 6 volumes, has the entire series of Doctor Slump(manga), and watched every episode of DBZ abridged, I feel very confused.

sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#4475: Aug 6th 2013 at 1:39:41 AM

Furthermore, Freeza and Cold can't sense ki, so they may not even be correct about their estimation that they'd defeat Namek Goku together.

They most likely are, going purely by strength alone. Freeza wasn't THAT much weaker than Goku to begin with, and a power up that was big enough for him to think it'd let him beat Namek Goku himself should at least let him rival Goku now. And it's shown that, if you have two rivals fighting, another fighter, even a weak one, helps a ton.

So yeah they were most likely right. If they were wrong, it wasn't due to power reasons.


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