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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#38051: Dec 13th 2020 at 2:17:40 AM

Hey theoretically SS 2 should be the best form and it's not even that different from SS 1 BUT all the focus is on SS 1 really. [lol]

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#38052: Dec 13th 2020 at 8:23:25 AM

I will be surprised if Super Saiyan 3 makes this list.

If it does make a list, I'd expect a joke about Trunks' Super Saiyan Grade 3 form, which is the least effective Saiyan form in the series (that's the one he uses against Cell; it's only effective use was as a bluff in a training match against Vegeta in Super).

I wonder if Zarbon's transformation will make the list. That one has enough narrative weight to be mentioned.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
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#38053: Dec 13th 2020 at 8:25:20 AM

Outside of Oozaru, its one of the first transformations used in the series

Uni cat
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#38054: Dec 13th 2020 at 8:59:22 AM

I swear, they better mention Rosé.

It's one of the best looking, the reveal was dope, and it has a perfect record considering Goku Black was never defeated.

jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#38056: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:14:05 AM

I'm not gonna lie, I was not expecting that to be the bottom of the list.

The legend has returned.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#38058: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:58:33 AM

If that small showclip is anything to go by, does that mean SSJ 3, Rosé and Blue are out?

Uni cat
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38059: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:11:24 AM

I wasn't expecting Movie villains to be anywhere near this list, but the reasoning for Janemba makes sense for a bottom of the list entry.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#38060: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:27:14 AM

Well, they also point out it's far more acceptable for villains to pull a transformation out of their ass, so while I think Blue, at least, is out, Rosé might still show up, if on the low side.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#38061: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:30:16 AM

I wonder if Zarbon's transformation will make the list. That one has enough narrative weight to be mentioned.

I actually wouldn't say it had any narrative weight to it at all.

Zarbon and Dodoria are introduced as Frieza's super-tough right-hand henchmen. Vegeta kills Dodoria and moves on to Zarbon. Zarbon reveals he's not actually as weak as Vegeta thought because he has a transformation that boosts his strength, and then bodies Vegeta. Vegeta powers up from a zenkai and kills Zarbon in the rematch.

The thing about the transformation is that Vegeta is literally the only person that Zarbon ever fights, and the fight where he reveals the ability to transform is the first fight he ever has. There is no frame of reference for Zarbon's strength prior to him having to transform to beat Vegeta.

If he couldn't transform, then nothing in the story would actually change. Vegeta kills Dodoria and moves on to Zarbon. Zarbon reveals he's not actually as weak as Vegeta thought and then bodies Vegeta. Vegeta powers up from a zenkai and kills Zarbon in the rematch. Adding a transformation to the story didn't make Zarbon stronger than Vegeta; it just required base Zarbon, a character whose power is being introduced right this second, to be written to be weaker than Vegeta in order to justify transforming.

It's the first transformation in the series and it's kinda gratuitous. The only other difference it makes on the story is that Zarbon mentions to Vegeta that Frieza also transforms. This affects absolutely nothing in the story and just means that, when Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin face off with Frieza, Vegeta can announce Frieza's ability to transform instead of Frieza announcing it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 13th 2020 at 10:31:52 AM

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HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#38062: Dec 13th 2020 at 10:56:02 AM

I agree with Tobias, ultimately Zarbon's transformation mostly exists to show that transformations are a thing and to introduce the Zankai boost.

That said, seeing Vegeta getting his shit kicked in is fucking hilarious, and I think it earns points for that.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#38063: Dec 13th 2020 at 11:17:19 AM

Zarbon's transformation also confirms the "rule" that Transformations involve taking a more monstrous form, so that Frieza can break that rule, and suggests a limit on how much the Zenkai boost will actually help (roughly that you need one Zenkai boost to cancel out one villainous trump card, so when Frieza breaks out multiple transformations we understand that Zenkai won't be enough).

I won't claim Zarbon's transformation has a lot of narrative weight (it would be a perfectly fine #12), but it does do a certain amount of set up for other things that are important.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38064: Dec 13th 2020 at 1:31:00 PM

If Zarbon doesn't transform and doesn't reveal that Freeza can transform then Veggie can't assume a frame of reference for how strong Freeza "might" be...and him telling Freeza to just transform later on would be dumber than it already was.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#38065: Dec 13th 2020 at 3:14:57 PM

I disagree. That part of the story is actually weakened by Zarbon telling Vegeta about Frieza's transformations.

If Vegeta didn't know that Frieza could transform, then his arrogant gloating and mocking of Frieza would come across as a relieved Vegeta discovering that he can actually go toe-to-toe with Frieza, thinking this is all Frieza's got, and relishing that he no longer needs to fear the tyrant.

As is, Vegeta basically goes fuckstupid for no reason. After having very pragmatically tried to avoid fighting Frieza, Vegeta is forced into confrontation, matches blows with Frieza for a bit, and then starts demanding that Frieza transform.

In the span of a single chapter, Vegeta goes from petrified with terror at Frieza's arrival to arrogantly demanding that Frieza transform and break out his true ultimate power. It's a very weird scene that would flow better if Vegeta simply didn't know that Frieza could transform, and if his confidence stemmed simply from believing he was matching Frieza at his best.

It is a very weird creative decision for Vegeta to be aware that Frieza, the person he has gone out of his way to avoid ever having to fight, has hidden stores of power not yet unleashed - and for Vegeta to gain confidence in fighting Frieza because of this knowledge.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 13th 2020 at 3:16:53 AM

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#38066: Dec 13th 2020 at 3:22:56 PM

Probably his "Saiyan Pride™" manifesting for the first time ready with its IQ lowering hammer.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38067: Dec 13th 2020 at 3:29:54 PM

[up][up]I mean it wouldn't really matter if Freeza still has 3 forms.

Edited by randomness4 on Dec 13th 2020 at 3:33:01 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#38068: Dec 13th 2020 at 3:50:24 PM

Oh yeah, did Dragonball introduce the "Transform to flex on the good guys despite already being superior by a wide margin" thing? It's actually not as common as other Shounen transformation tropes it introduced or popularized but it's not exactly rare either.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#38069: Dec 13th 2020 at 4:15:55 PM

Freeza didn't do that, he transformed whenever he got pushed enough...

Him going to his 4th form was kinda that, but it's only because he said he had 2 more forms to begin with and the Kakarotto vs. Freeza fight wouldn't be nearly as iconic if it started from there I guess.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#38070: Dec 13th 2020 at 6:00:11 PM

Freeza went 4th form because Gohan had just blasted him with a Masenko that almost overpowered him.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#38071: Dec 13th 2020 at 7:18:17 PM

Oh, really? I didn't get that impression from the Abrdgd.

So was that foreshadowing for Gohan being a lot stronger?

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#38072: Dec 13th 2020 at 7:21:18 PM

Yup, in Abridged he changed just because, in the original Gohan got this close to finishing him off in his third form.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38073: Dec 13th 2020 at 7:24:47 PM

In the original, Gohan got a Zenkai after 2nd Form Freeza almost killed him that made him stronger than Vegeta, he just never got to really show it off because that was right when Piccolo arrived. Then, he got a rage boost from 3rd Form Freeza beating up Piccolo that let him fire a Masenko just barely weaker than 3rd Form Freeza.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 13th 2020 at 8:25:32 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#38074: Dec 13th 2020 at 9:51:13 PM

It's unclear exactly how much danger Frieza actually was in from that Masenko. He did have to struggle with it before managing to reflect it, but Frieza seems more surprised than worried afterwards.

He expresses confusion about where Gohan got the strength to do it, then realizes that Gohan must be a Saiyan. He then expresses further confusion and then just wanders off on a tangent about whose son Gohan must be and how badly he wants to exterminate all the Saiyans. Then he pops into Final Form.

Gohan's abrupt increase in power was shocking, but not so much that it actually endangered Frieza's life or even mildly harmed him; when the x20 Kamehameha later scuffs up Frieza's palm, he explodes with outrage over being made to experience pain, suggesting that nothing that's happened up to this point has actually hurt him at all.

That said, it's consistent with Frieza's behavior to this point. Frieza can't sense ki and effectively has to try and eyeball battle powers. His forms are power limiters; he has trouble controlling his full power and that's the only reason he uses transformations in the first place. He's not trying to, like, be a good sport and keep the competition fair or anything. He transforms, not because he necessarily needs to, but because he feels the slightest bit insecure about the possibility of the others catching up.

When he transformed to his Second Form, he was already over twice Vegeta's battle power. He didn't have to transform. But he didn't have a way of actually measuring that. Vegeta was strong enough to make Scouter Go Splooey and was goading him about unleashing his full power, so Frieza relented.

When he transformed to his Third Form, Piccolo had arrived and demonstrated himself to be surprisingly capable. Frieza got his second wind and put Piccolo's face in the dirt, but then Piccolo suggested he'd been sandbagging. Frieza called him a bluffing liar.... but then he transformed anyway just in case.

And then Gohan's Masenko happened. Once again, he was startled and surprised by how strong the others were, and even though they weren't actually a threat to him, Frieza got a little freaked out and transformed, just to be safe.

Nobody really pushed Frieza until Goku arrived, but they did keep doing well enough to make Frieza get nervous about the battle power he was presently at.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 13th 2020 at 9:51:40 AM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#38075: Dec 14th 2020 at 3:31:43 AM

Theory: when TFS were going to do the Buu saga, oe of the things they were going to do was make Hercule and Buu just straight-up a gay couple, like what they did with Korin and Yajirobe.


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