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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3751: Mar 29th 2013 at 7:51:00 PM

They made jokes about Pan? I only remember them joking about the Para Para Bros.

And the Baby arc is actually considered one of the better parts of GT, you may be thinking of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc, which is before that (The first 16 episodes or so). The Baby arc is when they started getting serious rather than trying to just emulate the original Dragon Ball IN SPACE.

edited 29th Mar '13 7:51:50 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3752: Mar 29th 2013 at 7:57:46 PM

The new movie is canon. It's out right stated that it takes place between chapters 517 and 518.

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3753: Mar 29th 2013 at 7:59:37 PM

[up] No it's not. Saying it takes place between those chapters is the same as saying Movie 13 takes place between 517 and 518. It does fit between them, but that's not what canon is.

lilchat Insert humor from in the trees man... the trees Since: Oct, 2012
Insert humor
#3754: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:00:49 PM

TFS made a throwaway joke about her in an early episode or movie. I don't remember which one though.

Yea I did mean the black star arc. I should rewatch it.

Insert snark
Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3755: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:18:19 PM

[up][up]Its also stated to be an official part of the storyline. That tells me it's canon why are you trying to dispute it.

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3756: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:20:33 PM

It said it was a new chapter in the official history. In other words, it's an official product.

No shit Sherlock.

There is no official canon, as has been said many times. The movie doesn't even fit into continuity anyway because they messed up the dates.

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3757: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:21:43 PM

[up]Were the hell did you get the no offical canon from. And what do you mean from messed up dates.

Seriously your the first person I have heard trying to say this movie is not canon.

edited 29th Mar '13 8:24:23 PM by Saya1

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3758: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:24:54 PM

I get it from them no single person in official capacity ever making a comment on canon. It's a western concept, to begin with.

And they screwed up the placement of the movie in the timeline. Videl is pregnant with Pan, which means it takes place at least 5 years after Z, but Bills has been asleep for 39 years and was asleep during Planet Vegeta's destruction, meaning the movie is at most 2 years after Z. They don't match up. Bulma's and Mai's ages also don't match up with either placement.

lilchat Insert humor from in the trees man... the trees Since: Oct, 2012
Insert humor
#3759: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:27:39 PM

[up] butthurt

Insert snark
CPFMfan I am serious. This is my serious face. from A Whale's Vagina Since: Aug, 2010
I am serious. This is my serious face.
#3760: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:35:38 PM

No, the Cooler movie doesn't fit anywhere. Goku, Gohan and Piccolo spent the 3 years training in the snow, and Goku could control his Super Saiyan form when he couldn't in the movie. Also Gohan didn't have a tail at this point.

Was it ever explicitly stated that they stayed in the snow for all three years without ever leaving for a minute?

As I said, the Super Saiyan thing can easily be written off as simple Plot Induced Stupidity, and "character X didn't use Y technique to win the battle until the very end" applies to a lot of things. Plus, this exact same thing happens in a lot of other movies, and I don't see anyone saying that it's proof that the characters hadn't mastered the Super Saiyan forms in those movies.

On the tail... our Non-Serial Movie page says

Some consider Gohan's tail as a continuity snarl, but he could have easily regrown his tail and had it subsequently removed in the three years before the Android's arrival. Goku's Super Saiyan transformation is contested, however, as he was able to transform on his own by that point, while in the movie he only transforms after becoming angry.

However, his response when trunks asks him if he can transform into a Super Saiyan at will is "Most of the time", implying he didn't have complete control over it yet.

Is that true?

Anyway, if there is apparently no canon, I don't see why you keep trying to go out of your way to say what is or isn't canon? If there is no official canon, isn't there just what the individual viewer wants to think of as canon?

edited 29th Mar '13 8:47:16 PM by CPFMfan

...
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#3761: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:40:48 PM

It must be a western concept, because I can't wrap my head around what you mean, Saiga.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3762: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:47:56 PM

Daizenshuu 7 openly says that Cooler's movie doesn't fit in the timeline, because of those reasons. So I'm just drawing on that.

There's no official canon, but there are definitions of the word "canon". When not dealing with religious texts, that definition is "the authentic works of a writer". We know that describes the manga, and almost nothing else. Other works aren't considered canon because there is no official word of them being canon.

What I can't wrap my head around is why people want something to be canon because they like it.

edited 29th Mar '13 8:48:23 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#3763: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:48:54 PM

Perhaps the wrong words are being used, leading to a breakdown in communication.

edited 29th Mar '13 8:49:32 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#3765: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:49:32 PM

Problem is, so long as something doesn't completely contradict Canon at all, it can be considered canon.

I don't see what you're getting so frustrated for.

Watch Symphogear
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#3766: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:50:34 PM

Like, I'm not sure if that definition of the word describes what I intended when using it, which would mean I was using he word incorrectly.

Maybe "in continuity" would better describe what I mea, bu I'm not sure. Need to sleep on this one.

edited 29th Mar '13 8:51:04 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3767: Mar 29th 2013 at 8:51:27 PM

[up][up] But there's no grounds to call it canon, either. What I'm frustrated by is people treating something unconfirmed as a fact.

[up] Maybe. Continuity and canon are often confused with each other.

edited 29th Mar '13 8:51:47 PM by Saiga

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3768: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:01:19 PM

Honestly I thought Continuity and Cannon were the same thing. But still this is part of the story unlike the other moives which were stated not to be. (As for mistakes Toriyama tends to forget things so you don't have to dwell on it.)

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3769: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:02:12 PM

Something being able to fit doesn't make it canon, otherwise Bojack Unbound and Wrath of the Dragon are canon.

Canon isn't about what fits without contradictions, it's about what's officially part of the series as considered by the author, and not just a spinoff or side story. Noncanon things can fit without contradiction, and canon can contradict itself if poorly written. Fitting has nothing to do with being canon.

And this movie was NEVER stated to be part of the story. It just has more involvement from AT than the previous 13 movies.

edited 29th Mar '13 9:03:24 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3770: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:11:42 PM

[up]He said it was part of the story.

edited 29th Mar '13 9:13:05 PM by Saya1

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3771: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:13:59 PM

You're twisting the official history quote. Also don't forget that the main scriptwriter is Yusuke Watanabe, not Toriyama.

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3772: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:28:03 PM

[up]Your the ones who are trying to twist it! Here's one of the damn interview with the man. You're the only ones who are trying to say its not really part of the story.

Seriously you two are the only ones.

edited 29th Mar '13 9:29:19 PM by Saya1

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3773: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:30:03 PM

Right now you're the only one who is part of the story, so...?

And I've read that interview, and I don't see anywhere where he says it's part of "the story".

edited 29th Mar '13 9:30:21 PM by Saiga

Saya1 Werefox from Multiverse Since: Oct, 2011
Werefox
#3774: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:35:27 PM

[up]I am not just talking about this site and there have been other people that disagreed with you they just did not keep it up. As for the interview he clearly considers himself the creator and it part of story he just does not say it outright.

edited 29th Mar '13 9:37:04 PM by Saya1

You look happy, I can change that if you want.
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#3775: Mar 29th 2013 at 9:36:05 PM

Since there are people here that do not seem to understand what canon mean, let me provide an analogy. The movies, anime-filler, and GT are to the manga what the apocryphal texts are to The Bible. In this analogy, Team Four Star's Dragon Ball Abridged would be the LOL Cat Bible.


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