Dragon Ball Z Abridged

"Dont dream of resurrecting again."

That's kinda funny in hindsight.

The manga had Vegeta and Goku working flawlessly in tandem, while Freeza and 17 were a in the fly effort.

Yeah, but the manga To P blows.

And the anime TOP doesn't? The anime version of TOP was probably the worst arc of Super, though I don't know how to consider the retellings in that.

Edited by Saiga on Feb 22nd 2020 at 11:02:49 PM

Well it does have flashy fight scenes.

Anime Tournament of Power was good as hell.

I've been lead to believe that while the Anime ToP had good moments, the entire thing on the whole was middle of the road at best.

Bulma and Vegeta got married between Cell Saga and Buu Saga, right? That totally seems like something Dragon Shortz would cover.

I don't think it was ever specified if Bulma or Vegeta ever officially tied the knot.

Super has Vegeta refer to Bulba as his wife, but irrc there’s never a point where he does so in Z.

Anime To P goes on way too long, but it does have some pretty good moments. I've heard nothing good about manga To P on the other hand.

He does when telling Goku off for promising Old Kaioshin a kiss from Bulma.

Both of them have things I like and things I don't.

Though I think I like more things about the anime TOP more than the Manga even if I agree the anime went on way too long.

The anime played the Ultra Instinct Card way too much, but did kinda build up to it, as opposed to Goku just managing to do it after a speech (and being inspired by Roshi).

Ultra Instinct also won Goku the fight, even if he didn't get to land to finishing blow, while it crapped out on him before he could even stop Jiren.

The manga on the other hand, didn't make 17 being revealed to be alive so....anticlimatic. In that, he stayed hidden until everyone else was gone, and 18 even pointed out she knew full well he wasn't dead since Krillin removed his bomb (something Krillin forgot).

But I'm not in the mood for a Anime vs Manga debate, so lets end this here.

I stand corrected.

I like 17's survival being anticlimactic. I thought it was totally ridiculous that he was buffed to be Super Saiyan God level just 'cause. At least Golden Frieza had an excuse, lame though it was. 17 just is that strong because reasons.

So I actually prefer that 17 stayed the f*ck out of the Jiren battle and only revealed himself once Goku and Frieza had taken the guy out of the fight. The fact that caused his victory was the clever application of androids not having a ki signature in the manga, whereas he wins in the anime because he can throw down just as hard as Blue Goku and Golden Frieza (because reasons).

The only thing I'd change of the manga's version is to get Frieza the f*ck out of there too and have it be Blue Vegeta. The manga draws a thematic point (that doesn't really jive that well with Dragon Ball's history but whatever) about Jiren being handicapped by his inability to comprehend the value of teamwork. The rest of the Pride Troopers are weak but are able to hang in the tournament for a long time because of their exceptional teamwork. But Jiren just powerhouses everything because he doesn't give a shit about teamwork.

This point reaches its apex when Goku and Frieza's killer teamwork ultimately defeats him despite him outmatching them both. But. Like. Why do Goku and Frieza have killer teamwork?

The series to this point had been building up Goku and Vegeta becoming Bash Brothers. They train together, they spar together, and Whis has been having them @ him in 2v1 matches to teach them to synchronize attacks with one another. Goku and Vegeta becoming a twin set of deadly fighters who know each other's style inside and out and match each other's blows has been what Super was building up to this whole time.

Jiren should have been Goku and Vegeta's moment. The culmination of that whole Bash Brothers Training plot point that Super's been developing for so long. It makes zero sense for Frieza to get that moment instead.

So, all in all, manga ending sucks because Frieza steals Vegeta's thunder, and anime ending sucks harder because Android 17 foregoes a cool plan not rooted in power levels but in established metaphysics to instead join Frieza in stealing Vegeta's thunder.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 22nd 2020 at 10:51:56 AM

Minor correction: it's not just Goku and Freeza's teamwork, it's 17 and Freeza's. They planned it together.

The manga also did have the pay-off of Vegeta and Goku working together which allowed them to push Jiren to the limit. It's the culmination of these four's efforts that brings Jiren down, I wouldn't just focus on it being Freeza and Goku at the end.

I mean I would prefer Freeza not being there to begin with (as in, the series, but I'm glad that he and Goku don't have the same team-up they do in the anime where they're shown to have great teamwork against all logic - especially when the anime also establishes that Goku and Vegeta have terrible teamwork.

Edited by Saiga on Feb 23rd 2020 at 3:58:39 AM

That's fair enough. It's pretty ridiculous that 17 could get as strong as he did fighting poachers and ranging the hell out of a park, but the manga did reveal he was only at Super Saiyan 3 level as opposed to matching Blue. Toei's lack of respect for Power Levels means they pull some pretty dumb shit.

How effective Teamwork is varies in this series, but the vast majority of the time it's being used by the characters who're meant to lose in order to show how strong the bad guys are...and then how strong Goku is when he styles all over their asses. This of course doesn't prove teamwork is useless, only that it wasn't useful in those situations due to the massive power gap.

Maybe it's just for the irony. The story has been emphasizing that Goku and Vegeta are massively backslides on the teamwork front. Even Goku, who's more willing to do so will often choose to fight on his own due to wanting to satisfy his fight boner.

We should blame Toriyama TOYOTAROU... right, this one's on Toyotarou. Goku and Vegeta were going to just work together normally to defeat Fused Zamasu, but Toyotarou pushed for the return of Vegito...and considering what we got, I can only assume Toriyama came up with the ending he did to spite that....or he's just that cruel.

But yeah, Toyotarou trying to meet audience expectations when working with a man who deliberately goes against those expectations as a rule was a bad idea.

Toyotarou is the only who actually had Goku and Vegeta work together, don't blame him. He just moved it from the Black arc to the TOP arc.

Also, I'm sure Toriyama's original plan for the ending has nothing to do with what Toyotarou did, because not only is that really silly, it also appeared in the anime long, long before Toyotarou got that far.

Edited by Saiga on Feb 23rd 2020 at 4:23:59 AM

So that means I can go back to being mad at Toriyama for the ending of the Future Trunks arc then?

Fine. I'm ok with that. Because that one's gonna stick with me.

I did want to stop blaming him for at least one thing. I do that way too much.

Perhaps this conversation should be happening on the Dragon Ball thread.

That applies to, like, 90% of the discussion that happens in this thread. And it's only going to get worse now that DBZA is over.

Yeah. We end up talking about the main series a lot on this thread as well.

I suppose we can talk more about what we'd have liked to have seen if they got to Buu.

Nah, ignore him. Goku Black, was it any good?

I mean, you don't have to talk about anything you don't want to, but I'm not sure why talk about content that never has been and almost certainly never will be abridged goes here when there's a thread specifically for talking about the original manga / anime.

Edited by HighCrate on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:44:47 AM

Because we like to.