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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#37301: Feb 11th 2020 at 2:39:04 PM

While I agree High Crate is taking bankruptcy/lawsuits waaaaaasy too likely, I think they're right about TFS' other projects. DBZA is what put them on the map, so to speak, and I definitely imagine they'll struggle without it.

Frankly, none of the side content they've put out has been enough to keep my interest. It's hard to see what they have without DBZA, but original animation might be able to change that. Even so, I haven't seen a very high standard of quality from them based on what they've previously put out.

And the fact that they've had to constantly change their position on how far DBZA is going to go doesn't give me a lot of faith in their projects. Yes, I understand the burnout, the logistical issues and why they want to move forward. However, I liken the constant reduction in DBZA's scopes to cancelled projects from a business. If you as a consumer see a business constantly cancelling future projects, it doesn't instill much faith about the business planning or goals they set for themselves.

Edit: posted before I saw the mod.note on previous page

Edited by Saiga on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:42:09 PM

EndlessSea LEGENDARY GALE from oh no you don't Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LEGENDARY GALE
#37302: Feb 11th 2020 at 2:56:42 PM

As always, Videl and Great Saiyaman Shenanigans are the two items topping my wishlist. Especially Videl. I dunno how interested I'd be in a TFS take on Great Saiyaman, but Videl and Gohan are one of my favorite couples in fiction and I absolutely need more of them in my life.

but HOW?
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#37303: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:24:34 PM

I expect we'll get something about 17 and how he became a park ranger.

Remember when Gohan first went to Bulma for a costume? Bulma was smoking a cigarette, which, to the best of my knowledge, is the only time she ever does that in the entire franchise. It's odd, and I always wondered what Team Four Star would say about it if they got there.

Edited by WillKeaton on Feb 11th 2020 at 4:27:07 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#37304: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:30:47 PM

Probably joke about how Bulma had suddenly taken up smoking but was going going cold turkey by the next scene

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37305: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:06:09 PM

Don't Mock the Boo-ish Saga.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#37306: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:06:19 PM

I want to see their Freeza and Cell interact in hell.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#37307: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:30:03 PM

"You got beaten by the monkey's child? My word, you're more pathetic than I thought!"

"Try me, bitch."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37308: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:56:49 PM

Sad thing is, it would probably be an even match between them 'cause that's Toei filler and Toei doesn't care about power levels.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#37309: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:13:44 PM

Base Goku at the Otherworld Tournament > Super Perfect Cell according to Toei.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37310: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:16:52 PM

I mean...it's filler because that's not even how hell works in Dragon Ball.

So the rules were screwed from the start...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#37311: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:26:04 PM

[up][up]Ass Pull, or are Zenkai Boosts enormous when it comes to actually dying

Ass Pull and no sense of scaling, of course

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37312: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:07:12 PM

You can't get those when you're already dead...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37313: Feb 12th 2020 at 6:48:37 AM

Ass Pull, or are Zenkai Boosts enormous when it comes to actually dying

Ass Pull and no sense of scaling, of course

It's Toei. Power levels stop being a thing whenever Toei wants a cool fight. Same reason Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu were able to overpower the Ginyu Force. Same reason Krillin defeated Gohan in Dragon Ball Super (anime-exclusive).

Toei cares first and foremost about Rule of Cool. So, yeah, if their Hell Frieza and Hell Cell were to fight, it'd probably be presented as an even match between two worthy foes despite the fact that Cell should logically stomp Frieza pretty effortlessly. Because the point of the fight would be "Cell and Frieza, Let's You and Him Fight! Gonna be so cool!"

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 12th 2020 at 7:51:53 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#37314: Feb 12th 2020 at 7:10:44 AM

Yeah it would be a ridiculous as a four year old being on par with Goku, and Piccolo...... wait a minute.

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#37315: Feb 12th 2020 at 7:20:39 AM

To be fair, Toei seems to consider that the villains train in hell, so I can see if I squint why they would put them close in power.

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#37316: Feb 12th 2020 at 9:56:24 AM

Stuff like:

  • Jiren consistently holding back in the TOP and each fight with him being an endless series of "okay, but here's even more of his power."
  • Goku fighting endlessly and most of his fatigue in the TOP becoming irrelevant because "limits exist to be broken"
  • Ultra Instinct being triggered by Goku somehow surviving the explosion of a Spirit Bomb
  • Hit being an assassin from another universe who can somehow fight on par with Super Saiyan Blue just because
  • Jiren being able to ignore the stopping of time because he's just so strong
  • 17 training up to Goku's level of strength off-screen in x years
  • Vegeta blowing himself up and explicitly stating he was out of power then suddenly going Blue again and clearly not being out of power
  • Frieza training himself back to relevancy off screen in 4 months - more the fact that it's off screen than the idea itself note 
  • ignoring Kaioken to give Goku and Vegeta a "mastered, aura-less" Super Saiyan form
  • Goku and Beerus almost "punching the universe to death"
  • Dragonball's overall Serial Escalation where "higher power means ATK, DEF, AGL is all around better and your tactical options against said opponent are almost non-existent."
  • Black's Zenkais being faster and more efficient than anybody else's
  • 17 winning the tournament and there being actual surprise that he would make a selfless wish instead of wishing for a f-cking cruise

These things bother me more far more than Frieza and Cell keeping their bodies, or Goku fighting them in his base form.

Edited by Soble on Feb 12th 2020 at 10:02:04 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#37317: Feb 12th 2020 at 11:02:35 AM

Manga Tournament of power lack the endless here's even more power thing with Jiren, but it was also rushed as hell compared to the anime's....dragged out to hell.

And of course, we've gone over Serial Escalation again and again.

I'm wondering why Toei didn't ask Toriyama more about what Hell was like so they could avoid tripping things up with him later (since he clearly hadn't given it much thought at the time). This seems to be a big thing: the two sides just say you do you.

Even now, when they are coordinating with Super, there's still a lot of I'll go this way, you go this way type things in how they interpret events and that's result in two irreconcilable versions, even though being monthly means there should be more planning going into it.

Combine that with both sides lack of interest in fully exploring the universe(s) they've created, instead choosing to focus on Goku again and there are issues.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37318: Feb 12th 2020 at 12:04:41 PM

Yeah it would be a ridiculous as a four year old being on par with Goku, and Piccolo...... wait a minute.

"Ridiculous" isn't a problem. Dragon Ball is ridiculous. Everything about Dragon Ball is ridiculous. Satan being an alien slug-man who reproduces orally is ridiculous. A 12-year-old monkey-alien beating up a military force because he wants to use a magical dragon to resurrect a Native American is ridiculous. The time-traveling bastard progeny of a Crack Ship ganking Frieza because we need to fight cyborgs instead is ridiculous.

Dragon Ball is, and has always been, ridiculous.

But Dragon Ball's got its power tiers. You might not like them, but they're there. And the boosts might be ridiculous sometimes, but there is always a reason for when a character suddenly rockets upwards in power. Sometimes a silly reason, like the two separate times that Gohan got a huge boost from an old man concentrating really hard at him. Dragon Ball is ridiculous. But a reason nonetheless.

In Toddler Gohan's case, the reason is "Saiyan and Human genes mix together like chocolate and peanut butter." Goten and Trunks are similarly crazy-powerful right out of the starting gate.

Toei doesn't really do "character got a boost because of a (probably silly) reason and is now permanently on a higher level". They usually opt to just ignore the tiers outright whenever they aren't directly adapting the manga. As well as everything else about the story's continuity, for that matter.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 12th 2020 at 1:07:24 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#37319: Feb 12th 2020 at 12:07:26 PM

They just...should not have ever shown what Hell was, it's pretty stupid that you can even actually leave.

Stuff like that is why people see dying as not that big of a deal anyway in this series.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#37320: Feb 12th 2020 at 12:08:12 PM

Stuff like that is why people see dying as not that big of a deal anyway in this series.

I mean. That ship sailed with the titular Dragon Balls, really.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#37321: Feb 12th 2020 at 12:10:18 PM

I often wonder if Toriyama / Toei / etc regretted the decision to start the new era with a transformation that gave Goku / Vegeta near-universal level power.

A lot of Super certainly reads that way, with them not wanting to escalate the plots to the level such a buff would warrant, and so constantly trying to write around the fact that Goku and Vegeta could solve any problem in seconds if they chose in order to make the plots they do want work. Having their cake and keeping it too.

They didn't want Goku and Vegeta to start running roughshod over the setting's pantheon Asura style, so they had to keep handwaving reasons why mortals could reach that power on their own (Toei especially, with the Copies and Watagash, but not exclusively - Toriyama was the one behind Freeza) where Goku needed a special ritual to even get partway. Goku and Vegeta constantly have to sandbag in order to give the stories any tension, which results in no tension at all or things getting worse because they're stupid: the entire Zamasu arc happens because Goku and Vegeta don't get serious with Black until they've fought him enough that he becomes too strong to defeat easily. And yes, there's a degree to which that is in Goku's character to do, but there's a point where you're just using a character flaw as a crutch for complacent writing.

Looking back on it, a big problem with Super is that it rarely feels like there are any stakes. Some of the arcs literally have none on purpose, but even in the ones that are supposed to have them care more about giving us spectacular fights than making it feel like the characters are at risk (hence the TOP's constant "I'm out of energy! Nope, second/third/etc wind!" moments). The one time there was a plot with stakes, the actual ones in jeopardy were limited to an Expendable Alternate Universe.

I mean. That ship sailed with the titular Dragon Balls, really.

Specifically, the series stopped doing arcs where the Dragonballs themselves are important to the story as a MacGuffin or something they had to protect in the Freeza arc, leading to - among other things - the balls transitioning to a "get out of consequences free card" role instead and resulting in death not really being an issue.

If they want the risk of death to be a possibility, someone needs to kill Dende. And even that could get repetitive.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 12th 2020 at 12:14:33 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#37322: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:07:00 PM

=# Look At My Signature You Bastards.

I don't know how to do the hashtag embedding right.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#37323: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:30:54 PM

[up] I did. Doctor Who must drive you insane.

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 12th 2020 at 4:31:09 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#37324: Feb 12th 2020 at 1:33:57 PM

Its travel travel they dont need to explain shit!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#37325: Feb 12th 2020 at 2:18:59 PM

To be honest, the way they handled the Black Goku arc made me drop Super. Not only because the result made one of my favourite scenes of DBZ meaningless (Trunks going back to the future and defeating the androids and Cell), but also because it made Goku and Vegeta look like absolute bastards.


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