One thing I forgot to mention with the Cooler thing.
He himself states Base Goku could defeat Freezer after fighting him for a bit and IIRC he could sense Power Levels and has to have seen Freezer's full power once.
So it's not a case that he is a scrub more like Toei wanked Goku to be over x40 times stronger than his Namek self.
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"Well, I don't think Toriyama had decided that Base Goku would still be weaker than Frieza. They probably just assumed Goku's Base power had gone up.
One Strip! One Strip!
How's that, both Veggie and Freeza survive the attack...and keep fighting. Freeza dying from it would actually not be the same.
That's how the fight with Broli starts though,they all transform.
And Kakarrot transforms into SSJ 2 the ability he doesn't have yet, just to get it over with.
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The Vegeta fight is perhaps the best fight in the whole series, so being closer to it wouldn't be that bad.
I honestly wish more fights were like that (Specially the part of the weaker people actually contributing to stuff).
But, yeah, as
said, Freeza actually dying to the Genki Dama wouldn't be a rehash because that have happened yet. Really, in the main series Buu is the only one who actually dies to that damn move.
There's some pretty dope rock in the pre-Super dub movies.
Like Pantera plus Broly.
TBH the Kid Buu fight fits a similar niche to the Vegeta fight in that all the characters take a part in beating him, whether be fighting him, distracting him, convincing people, sharing energy, allowing communication, etc.
It's one of my favorite fights in the entire franchise, if not my favorite. The only problem is that there was several easier solutions at hand but symbolism™, although I feel it works here.
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"I think that's the overall feeling on the matter.
It's a nice ending, but it also wasn't really necessary, and came out of a complete change of direction at the expense of another character who'd been built up for years.
But seeing the spirit bomb pull off a real victory and seeing everyone on earth contribute to it mitigates that.
One Strip! One Strip!The thing is that the fight effectively ends there anyway. Up to that point, it had been a complex group battle against the individual phases of Frieza leading up to this moment.
After the Genki-Dama, all that happens is that Goku turns Super Saiyan. And at that point, the fight is functionally over. There's still some blows exchanged, but after Goku transforms, Frieza ceases to be a threat to him and never will be again. Everything that follows is just clean-up, and it is a prolonged bit of clean-up.
If Super Saiyan Goku had flicked Frieza really really hard into the sun, it would have achieved the same thing as chapter after chapter after chapter of Goku wailing on Frieza and Frieza failing to wail on Goku did.
The Super Saiyan sequence is why the fight ultimately winds up feeling dragged out and unfulfilling. It consumes a lot of screentime, but the fight dynamic never changes or fluctuates in the slightest. Even when Frieza unveils his Full Power form, it amounts to f*ck-all and has no actual impact on the fight whatsoever. Super Saiyan Goku is just too much for Frieza to handle, and there's only so long you can watch an invulnerable super-protagonist effortlessly stomp a defeated villain.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.But if you're reading dragon ball, then you were already kinda doing that.
Edit: As a further argument to the above point, at that time, we didn't know Frieza had already lost. Yes, Goku was more powerful than ever, but there was a reason King Kai told Goku not to let him power up to 100%. It was too risky. Nobody had anyway of knowing Goku was still completely superior even then. I don't even think Goku knew. And of course, Frieza not being able to maintain 100% was just the extra nail in a already well made coffin.
But we only know that in hindsight, and we all know that's 20/20.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Dec 29th 2019 at 10:35:28 AM
One Strip! One Strip!Vegeta getting pummeled is great cause as a character He usually completely utterly DESERVES it for being Vegeta cause Vegeta in DB is an ASSHOLE
I know its like 20+ years of just accepting its as fact but Vegeta honestly doesn't have a redemption arc in Dragonball, He kinda like a lot of Popularity Power characters, gets handed it cause the story needs him stick around with the group
Praise be to the absolute Queen
It suddenly appears when Trunks dies, then goes away, then it kind of just happens when he's wished back to life by the end of the Boo Saga.
Buu arc?
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Vegeta getting pummeled also works because it's used to build up an antagonist. It's an empowering moment for the villain, which creates tension because our heroes will then need to be able to pummel this guy who was strong enough to pummel Vegeta.
When it's an actual villain getting pummeled, it can get old. Fights where the hero so far outclasses the villain that the villain has no hope of doing anything to them can be really cool and fun, but usually they need to be short and sweet to pull that off. If the fight drags on for too long with no credible threat to the hero ever emerging, it gets boring.
For instance, Gohan trashes Cell as an invulnerable super-warrior for a while, but that then comes to an end and Cell finds a way to jump back on top. The flow of battle changes unexpectedly once again, and a real fight re-emerges from the curbstomp.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 29th 2019 at 11:14:34 AM
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Vegeta showing concern for his son 'after an arc of him physically and verbally abusing him' shows that vegeta at least can care... but its still Vegeta being Self centered
The Buu arc is more a capstone to why Vegeta DOESN'T deserve a redemption arc
Not really,
Cell comes back, wounds Gohan and then starts a Beam Struggle
The Fighting in the Cell arc pretty much plummets the moment Goku gives up.
Praise be to the absolute Queen
Yeah, the idea that Super Perfect Cell changed the tide of battle is just wrong. If he and Gohan had actually fought, sure, but the first attack they used against each other also happened to be the last.
Goku knew. Thanks to Roshi, Goku knows how to do basic math, and Freeza had been helpfully giving him exact percentages on how much of his full power he was using. All Goku had to figure out is think "so, he's at 50% now, if he was twice as strong, would I still be stronger?" and answer "yes".
Super Perfect Cell was so Gohand could finish off the villain himself and Cell shooting shooting him in the arm was so there was some kind of struggle.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Well, to bring up Broly again, he also does the antagonist getting pummeled bit but it is far shorter than the Goku vs Freeza.
And its kinda diffeent thing because Broly isnt a pure evil folk getting his ass handed to him brcause he deserved it and also its a movie, less room for messing around.
Ironically i think Resurrection F kinda has the same problem of Freeza just failing to fight back for a grand part of the movie
Edited by fasoman1996 on Dec 30th 2019 at 6:57:40 AM
Uni cat

.....
<Shakes fist at the sky in rage>
TORIYAMAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Edited by HandsomeRob on Dec 29th 2019 at 1:08:11 PM
One Strip! One Strip!