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Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#36501: Dec 17th 2019 at 4:49:13 PM

That doesn't help in the long run, it's kinda pathetic

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#36502: Dec 17th 2019 at 4:59:08 PM

Also his usage of the discs against Jiren was more creative than anything Krillen ever did.

Technically Krillin tried that move out against Goku first when they were sparring, and then Goku repurposed it.

But geeze, Jiren may not have regeneration but him getting out of that situation was just as bullshit as anything Cell or Buu ever did.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#36503: Dec 17th 2019 at 5:02:52 PM

I had assumed that 17's energy shield was something he created during one of several long timeskips. I had completely forgotten he used it during that fight with Piccolo.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36504: Dec 17th 2019 at 5:03:23 PM

[up][up][up][up] Except that said cannon fodder nearly knocked 17 out of bounds / pinned down Gohan and Piccolo. They can't credibly be threats to these characters and be within the humans' ballpark.

And that's only the ones that directly interacted with both the humans and the stronger fighters. There were plenty of other universe 'fodder' that were problems for the universe 7 fighters, and if they're all meant to be hundreds to thousands of times stronger than the ones who happened to fight the humans it's not like any difference was conveyed.

Edited by Saiga on Dec 17th 2019 at 11:05:29 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#36505: Dec 17th 2019 at 5:23:50 PM

[up][up][up] Jiren may not have regeneration but he’s all about the hax bullshit just the same. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#36506: Dec 17th 2019 at 5:30:59 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I mean, is how it happen in the movie almost step by step but no in the series.

Freezer was until super sayian come along stronger than anybody and even then he get goku a good pounding.

cell was actually weaker from most part and he got around by being sneaky as hell, with the drama come if he absorbed the androids and when it did it took exactly destroying 16 to get gohan to beat him.

Boo was superior like 80% of the screen time, evolding and absorving in order to make thing intersting.

I will said for many super dosent work because it dosent generate that nail bitting drama over the bad guy as once did.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#36507: Dec 17th 2019 at 5:43:28 PM

Anyway, the countdown. I'd honestly written off Hellzone Grenade after Special Beam Cannon got on the list, but I'm glad it made it since it's extremely cool.

Wonder if they know about the time Vegeta used the move.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36508: Dec 17th 2019 at 6:08:52 PM

....You know, I'm not sure if I'm all that big on the old HZG (Hellzone Grenade).

I mean, it worked for what it was, and it's failure (as is often the case in DB) isn't due to any flaw in the technique as much as it is that the plot needed it to fail to drag things out until Cell arrives.

I guess it's just...honestly, the thing about Piccolo being a strategist...he does come up with a lot of ideas, and he's the one who often trains the younger characters and tries to teach them to fight smart, but being a strategist is a meaningless term in DB.

There's only one strategy you need, and even if it's not perfect, it works eventually so why bother with other stuff.

Though Ultra Instinct might change that.

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#36509: Dec 17th 2019 at 6:16:43 PM

Then that to boo, he manage to absorve gohan after he beat the crap of him.

that was a pretty neat idea.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#36510: Dec 17th 2019 at 7:53:11 PM

My problem with Hellzone Grenade is that in the grand scheme, it's really slow. If he threw all the greanades out at once, like with a hand motion that's the opposite of Light Grenade, and if an opponent couldn't just fly or Flash Step outside of the barrier they make (even between them) without setting them off, then it'd work.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#36511: Dec 17th 2019 at 8:00:06 PM

That could make it too obvious though.

Piccolo randomly blasting causes the enemy to smugly dismiss him on his missing only for him to reveal that wasn’t his intention.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36512: Dec 17th 2019 at 9:05:16 PM

Or they just shoot him.

Or Flash Step towards him and hit him before he can finish setting it up.

Or any number of things they can do to stop it before he can finish setting it up.

Or just tank it because you need a higher power level.

When Hell Zone Grenade succeeds, it (theoretically) succeeds in a spectacular manner, but like a vast majority of techniques, it has a lot of points where it can fail in an equally spectacular manner.

Fortunately, this is Dragonball, so the enemy probably will smugly sit there while Piccolo completely misses them.

One Strip! One Strip!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#36513: Dec 17th 2019 at 9:29:11 PM

The games tend to fix the speed problem of Hellzone Grenade at least.

But, y'know, gotta drag things out in anime.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#36514: Dec 18th 2019 at 9:36:29 AM

I just thought about how Saitama addressed Cell in the Cell Games.

  • "Whatever you say, Cockroach King."

Not only is it a barb, but most of the minor, monster antagonists in One Punch Man are themed "Sea King, Sky King, the Subterranean King."

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#36515: Dec 18th 2019 at 12:08:01 PM

Lucky #7 is Instant Transmission. Also:

Patrick: FINLAND!

Edited by terumokou on Dec 18th 2019 at 12:12:07 PM

Burning love!
Medigo03 Since: Sep, 2013
#36516: Dec 18th 2019 at 1:50:12 PM

Hell Zone Grenade took like 3/4 panels at most to set up in the manga. 17 didnt even have time to dodge blasts or wonder why the beams were missing him. Thats almost as fast as it is in the games anyway.

Also IT will always be neat. Even though after a while everyone seems to forget Goku doesnt need to do the gesture to use it at close range.

Edited by Medigo03 on Dec 18th 2019 at 1:51:39 AM

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#36517: Dec 18th 2019 at 1:57:21 PM

The gesture looks cool though

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#36518: Dec 18th 2019 at 2:00:38 PM

[up][up] Is that why he doesn't do the finger thing sometimes? What qualifies as "close range" in this scenario?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#36519: Dec 18th 2019 at 2:14:07 PM

I am pretty sure the fingers are not part of the technique itself, it is just him searching for people, since he does it during the searching process even when he ends up not teleportating. I guess it helps concentrate or whatever. Which is why it is not needed for close distance, he knows where the person he is targeting is at so no need for searching. Not sure why he still does it most of the time regardless, though. Force of habit maybe.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36520: Dec 18th 2019 at 2:16:05 PM

Teleporting requires Goku to lock on to a ki signature to teleport to. That gesture is him concentrating and feeling out the ki to lock onto.

At short ranges, such as with Cell, it would seem he has an easy enough time locking on not to need the gesture.

However, because the pose has become iconic and the examples of short-range teleportation are so sparse, that it's become normal for him to use the gesture even in examples of rapid, short range teleportation.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36521: Dec 18th 2019 at 2:49:36 PM

Goku needs to pull more stunts like what he pulled on Cell.

At the very least IT should solve his speed problem.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#36522: Dec 18th 2019 at 3:07:38 PM

Wasn't aware he even had a speed problem.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36523: Dec 18th 2019 at 3:11:35 PM

Yeah he doesn't have a speed problem, Cell was faster than Goku because he was overall more powerful than Goku.

Also Cell clearly demonstrates that IT isn't enough to keep up - because Cell just kicks his ass with his superior speed in response to Goku teleporting.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36524: Dec 18th 2019 at 3:29:44 PM

Teleport Kamehameha was a great combination of attacks, though. Too bad about dat regen.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36525: Dec 18th 2019 at 4:43:18 PM

Sorry for the double post but:

So I'm just now watching #9 on the DBcember list and a thought occurs to me. They mentioned that how Dragon Fist was created is never explained but neither is any of the other moves. And it got me thinking of something.

WAAAAAAAAAAY back in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, God wanted to name Goku as his successor. Had he accepted, Goku would have ascended the throne of God.

God also created Shenron via his Namekian Dragon Clan specialness. When he merged with Piccolo, Dende had to come to Earth and become God in order to create a new Shenron. Shenron's power is directly linked to the power of his creator.

So what is the shimmering golden Shenron that Goku can summon with his punch? That's Goku's Shenron. The Shenron that would have been if Goku had taken the job that God wanted to pass on to him.

Now, the obvious hole in the idea is the fact that you have to be a Dragon-Clan Namekian to create Dragon Balls and Goku's a Saiyan. But Dragon Fist only exists in Toei's non-canon movie and non-canon sequel series, and Toei's never exactly given two shits about continuity so why do I have to?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 18th 2019 at 5:43:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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