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HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#36001: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:40:32 PM

Well, nothindlg Watsuki ever made after Kenshin was quite as sucessful, so the series could just be bad.

Granted, "not as successful as Kenshin" doesn't mean much, considering how much of an impact the series made pretty much everywhere it was published.

Not the kind of thing that can be easily repiclated, if at all.

[up]Nani the fuck.

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 26th 2019 at 10:42:57 AM

terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#36002: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:42:55 PM

Man I forgot about Papillion.

Burning love!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36003: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:44:11 PM

Oh yeah I really need to check out Buso Renkin.

I watched the first episode/read the first chapter but hadn't continued it.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#36004: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:46:14 PM

Read Kimetsu no Yaiba too.

That has nothing to do with the discussion, it's just a really good series that I really love and want more people to read.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#36005: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:46:23 PM

Papillon is the best. Remember the Hawkeye Initiative? Putting male characters in the kind of ridiculous sexualized poses and outfits that comics often reserve for objectifying female characters?

Papillon is the Hawkeye Initiative of anime.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#36006: Sep 26th 2019 at 6:48:32 PM

Was always told that was JoJo, but it's nice there's more options.

Edited by Cross on Sep 26th 2019 at 9:50:03 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#36007: Sep 26th 2019 at 7:14:43 PM

[up]Maybe I'm not the sort of person who sees that often but I'm not sure I'd put it in that same sort of category?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#36008: Sep 26th 2019 at 8:20:01 PM

I cannot think of a single Jojo character who isn't sexualized at some point, to some degree. Even Speedwagon has that moment where he thaws Will Zeppeli's frozen arm with the sheer heat radiating off of his rock hard abs.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36009: Sep 26th 2019 at 8:28:29 PM

Papiliion is crazy fun...and also kinda crazy.

One Strip! One Strip!
terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#36010: Sep 26th 2019 at 8:40:56 PM

Yeah, starting to come back to me but the moment he became a homunculi, he really went off the deep end.

Burning love!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36011: Sep 26th 2019 at 8:43:59 PM

He quite literally did.

Ironically enough for him, he was more alive as a Homonculi than he'd ever been when he was actually alive as a human.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36012: Sep 26th 2019 at 8:53:24 PM

Another irritating thing about Kaoru's writing is not just the way she's not treated as a serious fighter like the male characters despite supposedly being one, but the narrative doesn't really respect her at all. She's often treated by the story or sometimes by the characters themselves in the same way as Yahiko, a literal child - heavily patronized and accepted as a hindrance in serious situations. Said child is her "student," but learns maybe one thing from her in an early episode before actually learning everything that results in him becoming major character material from Kenshin - plus he's flagrantly disrespectful, and her irritation about it is a joke.

And this is all treated as natural, which is the big issue. It's difficult to put into words just how ingrained into the story the issues with Kaoru's character, because it just something you start to notice whenever she's plot important.

A modern comparison is, like, the first season of Iron Fist, where male lead Danny shows up in female lead Colleen's dojo, usurps authority from her, marginalizes her goals and desires and essentially rewrites her existence as his supporting character because he believes whatever other contribution she has is pointless. Except instead of it paining Kenshin as a toxic person like it does Danny (at least then we had a specific character to hate about it, even if the writer was completely blind to it), Kenshin doesn't encourage it at all or even really comment on it - it just happens because the narrative believes it's inherently supposed to.

It doesn't end with her, either. The other main female characters are a Femme Fatale turned Tsundere archetype (bigger in the anime than the manga), and a comically-outmatched ninja who's defined almost entirely by her desire and expectation to stop being a ninja and settle down with a psychopath and is - again - typically treated as silly rather than serious whenever she's not doing that.

Also, the one time the series did introduce a female character who fights on par with the male characters, she turns out to be a male crossdresser for no discernible reason and impact, beyond presumably lampooning the idea that a character like that would be a woman in the first place.

TL-DR: It's not great. I get passionate about it because it's a series I otherwise adore so much.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 26th 2019 at 9:00:36 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#36013: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:30:52 AM

Bringing this back on-topic, is Android 17 still incapable of sensing Power Levels?

It would explain why he didn't showed up in DBS: Broly.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#36014: Sep 27th 2019 at 8:36:03 AM

That would not be an explanation for anything...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#36015: Sep 27th 2019 at 8:39:37 AM

He has a wife, kids, and a park, so that's also a reason why.

The legend has returned.
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#36016: Sep 27th 2019 at 12:03:49 PM

Too busy on his boat trip

Uni cat
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#36017: Sep 28th 2019 at 12:49:15 PM

I suppose it remains to be seen, but I find myself doubting 17's going to be a major recurring character going forward, such that his absence whenever something big goes down is likely to be explained. He doesn't really fit into the character dynamics of the series, and that's caused powerful characters to get the backseat before (read: Adult Gohan).

Then again, the sheer extent to which 17 got attention in the TOP is surprising in the first place, so I could be wrong about that.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 28th 2019 at 12:50:32 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#36018: Sep 28th 2019 at 1:06:29 PM

Yeah, I think 17's modern prominence was only for the Universal Survival Saga, like how Future Trunks' modern prominence was only for the Future Trunks arc. The same thing is probably the case with Merus in the Galactic Patrol arc.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36019: Sep 28th 2019 at 1:18:38 PM

Use 'em and forget 'em.

That's the Toriyama way.

One Strip! One Strip!
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#36020: Sep 28th 2019 at 3:56:46 PM

they'd probably either be really useful or really harmful against the goatman.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#36021: Sep 29th 2019 at 1:28:22 PM

Said child is her "student," but learns maybe one thing from her in an early episode before actually learning everything that results in him becoming major character material from Kenshin

Now, you are being unfair. He learned a second thing from her near the end of the manga, a really cool unique move at that! Of course, she can't always pull it off and he then proceeds to be master said move immediately surpassing his teacher and showing once and for all how completely worthless Kaoru is as a fighter. The one cool move she knows she can't do right and her kid student master it before her.

I get passionate about it because it's a series I otherwise adore so much.

I feel you. Loved the series, but it is kinda hard to look back because of that. I mean, it is not completely awful, there is little to no sexualization and no normalization of sexual assault as far I can remember, which is sadly a plus compared to many shonen jump manga, but it is still sad to recognize just how casually misogynistic the series is.

Edited by Heatth on Sep 29th 2019 at 5:33:02 AM

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#36023: Oct 23rd 2019 at 4:05:41 AM

you might want to put the entire comment chain cause I was extremely confused at what was going on.

The somewhat scary thing to me is that kaiserneko is apparently reading all of this shit and somehow musters the strength to give peaceful responses. Like, huge respect and all, but doing that on a prolonged amount of time must be stupidly stressful.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#36024: Oct 23rd 2019 at 4:06:47 AM

I usually don't like the response of "hoes mad", but this definitely describes this guy to a tee.

The legend has returned.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#36025: Oct 23rd 2019 at 5:44:13 AM

Scott has way more patience than I would have with this loser. And I already respected him a ton for his awesome conduct over the years.


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