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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
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#35926: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:18:38 PM

The limitless stamina in Super is revealed to allow Androids 17 and 18 slowly grow Stronger with Age, allowing them to increase their power at a much faster rate if they decide to take up training then any of the humans or Piccolo could with the same training.

Its basically a Perma Zenkai Boost for them, since they can't tire and could just train endlessly if they wanted to.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Sep 24th 2019 at 3:20:59 PM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35927: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:35:51 PM

I don’t recall it being explained that way, though it is true they can grow stronger.

It’s actually pretty scary how strong they’d be if they learned some of the techniques the other characters knew.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35928: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:44:43 PM

It's "Not" explained that way.

The explanation was: They just get stronger over time, even if they do nothing.

Or specifically if they do nothing, either-or.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35929: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:54:38 PM

...

That’s kinda bullshit.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35930: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:58:18 PM

To be fair, every power-up in the series is super-bullshit.

Remember that time when Goku's battle power went from 90,000 to 3 million off of a single Zenkai? Good times.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35931: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:42:57 PM

The infinite energy thing also came up in 18 vs Vegeta. Even though 18 was stronger than Vegeta, he was still able to put up a fight until things got progressively worse due to him running out of energy.

I guess it came up in 16 Vs Cell as well, just not in 16's favour. 16 stonewalled Cell so hard that Cell just had to stop trying to go through him and instead sneak up on 17 to absorb him.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35932: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:46:15 PM

[up]

I never considered that interpretation of the 16 vs Cell fight.

They were more or less evenly matched too, but given enough time, Cell probably would have started losing that fight...I think.

I believe his energy does go down, since even as Perfect Cell it's said he's getting weaker while fighting Goku, but it seems the drop off is minimal compared to normal people.

Of course, this just makes 17's refusal to leave even worse.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35933: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:48:08 PM

Yeah, Cell doesn't have infinite energy to my knowledge. Even taking into account that the androids aren't androids and are more like cyborgs, Cell isn't an android and is more like a weird clone monster. He has a power level that can be sensed like a normal person, which implies that he's using ki and not whatever android energy is.

Android 20, meanwhile, isn't an android and is more like a mecha.

Androids 16 and 19 are the only actual androids among the androids. Well, them and 8er, if he counts.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 24th 2019 at 2:49:29 AM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35934: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:49:59 PM

That being said, the Androids gave him incredible stamina....which was rendered useless by HIGHER POWERLEVEL as usual.

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#35935: Sep 24th 2019 at 2:43:20 PM

[up]I mean, legitimately being stronger is a valid reason for winning because infinite stamina can only get you so far to a certain extent.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35936: Sep 24th 2019 at 3:18:37 PM

Yeah. But for it to happen every time...

...that's always kinda been my issue; the way things were set up kinda railroaded fights so that they could only be settled by pure brute force 90% of the time (not all the time I admit, but mostly), while shrinking the ability of other characters to contribute.

I mean, how ofter has Goku won a fight not through brute force, but through outsmarting his enemy, simply possessing better skills?

It does happen, I fully admit that (his bout with Piccolo is entirely Goku outsmarting and outplaying the latter, right up until the final move where he reveals he could fly the entire damn time, allowing him to win the fight despite having no functioning limbs, he beat Buyon in the Muscle Tower arc by freezing the power bastard solid, and the fight with Vegeta....well that wasn't really so much outsmarting or out skilling him as just dumping so much shit on him and then hoping he goes down first, which he finally did), but most of the time he just overpowers them in a second.

This may be because the villains are so over the top evil that there's meant to be some catharsis from seeing them get beat, but even though I'm fully aware that being bigger and stronger (and having a higher Power Level) is a legitimate way to win, a little variety wouldn't have hurt.

Edit: Right. I've made this argument before, and there are probably hundreds of holes in it as usual. I can never articulate my thoughts on it well.

I'm not gonna remove it, so anyone who wants to poke those holes can feel free to do so. Maybe then I can finally argue it in a way that satisfies me.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Sep 24th 2019 at 4:20:17 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35937: Sep 25th 2019 at 6:54:01 AM

Dragon Ball has a problem where sheer brute strength is, more often than not, the end-all be-all.

Other shonen tend to focus more on techniques and abilities, but those frequently have a problem of proper noun abuse. A lot of shonen winds up developing its own f*cking language.

"Ziringan always succumbs to shurise, but my ziringan uses korika rakanna to become a perippa ziringan! This allows it to function like masako, defeating shurise!" Yeah, well, I tap three Plains to put Holy Might on Goblin Scout and swing for four damage.

YMMV on which is the better approach.

EDIT: Also, I know that the obvious suspects of what I'm talking about are Naruto and Bleach but fun fact: this is actually what drove me away from Rurouni Kenshin. Around the Kyoto Arc, that cool thing Kenshin would do where he verbally dissects the weaknesses of his opponent's style and technique before outsmarting and defeating them vanished, and it just became another "My Proper Noun beats YOUR Proper Noun" show.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 25th 2019 at 7:56:07 AM

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HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35938: Sep 25th 2019 at 7:24:49 AM

The Fate franchise has given me a great tolerance for Proper Noun Abuse, but even I got sick of Hunter X Hunter egregious usage of it.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
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#35939: Sep 25th 2019 at 8:06:04 AM

Doesnt Buu have infinite stamina as well?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35940: Sep 25th 2019 at 8:22:14 AM

Buu is a magic regenerating eldritch being that would make Piccolo and Cell jealous. I'm not sure he even takes any sort of physical wear and tear from anything. He's basically bubble gum.

Near as I can tell, Majin Buu has two conditions: Fine and Atomized.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 25th 2019 at 9:22:42 AM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35941: Sep 25th 2019 at 8:54:42 AM

Tell that to Evil Buu, Pure Buu, and Beerus, who pounded Good Buu into paste when he fought them.

He seemed pretty tired then.

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
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#35942: Sep 25th 2019 at 8:59:54 AM

I think even the androids would look tired when battered up.

I guess Toei forgot about the infinite energy part for 18 considering that in Bio-Broly and GT she can be seen panting.

Well, since Bojack got canned......WHEN BROLY?

Edited by fasoman1996 on Sep 25th 2019 at 1:00:14 PM

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35943: Sep 25th 2019 at 9:29:48 AM

As I understand it, they're energy never goes down (so 17 and 18 at the end of a fight have the same level of power as 17 and 18 at the end of a fight), but they still need to catch their breath and shit if the battle is intense enough.

They still breath after all. So it's like they get tired in terms of needing to catch a breath, but not in terms of getting weaker.

If that makes sense at all to anyone. I'm not sure I'm phrasing it right.

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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#35944: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:31:21 AM

It makes sense to me, honestly; the human body needs energy, sure, and non-infinite energy generating android cyborg people get it from food, but the human body also needs oxygen and water for things besides producing energy.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#35945: Sep 25th 2019 at 1:04:52 PM

Buu doesn't have infinite energy as far as we're shown. He does get worn down and tired from prolonged combat, and has long hibernative sleeps.

Don't think you could exhaust him to death, though. Gotta atomize him or he'll just recharge eventually.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#35946: Sep 25th 2019 at 3:57:12 PM

Yeah, the difference between 17 and 18 and Buu is this:

The Androids have infinite stamina but no special healing factor, so they can still be weakened just by breaking their bodies.

Buu has infinite healing factor but limited stamina, he can get tired if you fight him long enough and push him far enough, but he can't actually take damage unless you completely annihilate him.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 25th 2019 at 3:58:40 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35947: Sep 25th 2019 at 4:42:54 PM

Does Boo bleed?

If he does, that destroys the no damage thing.

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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#35948: Sep 25th 2019 at 5:29:46 PM

I would say he has no blood, but then I remembered the whole inside Buu's body stretch with Goku and Vegeta.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35949: Sep 25th 2019 at 5:35:27 PM

[up][up] you could potentially "damage" him. Like, vaporize part of his body. But it'll just come back, and without any effort or drain on him.

Edited by Adannor on Sep 25th 2019 at 3:38:00 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35950: Sep 25th 2019 at 5:35:39 PM

It's not that he doesn't get damaged, it's that his healing factor is so busted he might as well not.

[up][up]Are you the actual Will Keaton?

Edited by HailMuffins on Sep 25th 2019 at 9:36:05 AM


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