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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#35901: Sep 17th 2019 at 10:26:33 PM

They posted more details on Reddit why Bojack ain't happening

Tl:dr it's not that the movie is bad. It's that they are sort of burned out with the way they've done things, after 11 years. They are eager to try new directions. Hence short DBZ; unabridged and x in x minutes.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35902: Sep 17th 2019 at 10:41:51 PM

Always sad when this kind of thing happens, but at the same time, it's to be expected. Natural, even.

You can only do things a certain way for so long before you get sick of it.

And while I can't say I'm really feeling it, I've been following TFS for too long to not give these new shows a chance.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#35903: Sep 17th 2019 at 10:48:50 PM

I'm surprised they've been at this for 11 years, Jesus Christ.

To think this all started as a goofy fan thing, its basically a job for them now.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35904: Sep 17th 2019 at 11:42:55 PM

Their only job, from the sounds of it. Kaiser mentions that DBZA has made their professional careers more difficult, specifically in terms of finding work outside Team Four Star. Though he doesn't go into much detail.

I remember hearing murmurs a couple years ago about Toei trying to blacklist them from working for Funimation and the like. I wonder if that's what that's about?

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#35905: Sep 18th 2019 at 2:41:27 AM

Kaiser brings it up, and I figured that was the main issue, is that the sheer lack of dialogue from Bojack and his minions in the movie makes it really hard to write for them, since they can only write dialogue in scenes where the characters actually talk, and there's only so much you can get away with characters talking with the camera focused on someone else.

They have written around this issue before, by editing lip-flaps in where there weren't any, but that has its own issues. The lip-flaps have to look right, and the Bojack movie's lighting changes constantly, making lip-flaps from one scene look wrong in another scene. Also, editing lip-flaps is itself a ton of work, and usually only done for one camera angle, while in the Bojack movie, they would have to create entire scenes of lip-flaps from scratch, and lip-flaps from scratch tend to look awkward and don't fit the aesthetic of the movie very well.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 18th 2019 at 2:45:03 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35906: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:22:34 AM

I actually think the main issue is this part.

Which sucks, because every time we felt like we had a truly solid idea, we'd find it untenable due to the constraints of the footage. The last time we'd felt so stifled was Broly, but we spent almost twice the amount of time on the Bojack script and could only figure out the first 2/5 before we realized... we were miserable.

Because... and this may be the most pertinent thing I say here...

We're burnt out on Abridged content.

We're finding ourselves returning to wells and struggling with the content, especially following Season 3, and we want to get away from it. We need to try new things, like Unabridged, the Dragon Short Z, the X in X Minutes videos.

If this were five years ago, I have no doubt they'd be able to get a Bojack script put together despite the film's issues. But it's not. There's a reason it took a year to get episode 60 out the door, and that reason is simply that the passion isn't there for DBZA anymore. It's moved from being an outlet for the team's creativity to stifling that creativity.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 18th 2019 at 8:26:12 AM

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#35907: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:24:26 AM

Someone did talk Kaiser in sharing one joke from their 2/5 of a Bojack Script he liked.

Here

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 18th 2019 at 10:24:59 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35908: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:26:19 AM

Personally, DragonShortZ is what I'm most excited for, since it allows them to play around with the characters and universe they've reimagined, outside of the context of retreading the original show. And, apparently, make money doing it.

And the Dragon Short Z allow us to play with this franchise we've loved so dearly for YEARS in new ways! In our OWN way! (And, bonus, a COMPLETELY LEGALLY AND MORALLY MONETIZABLE way.)

In the Bojack cancellation announcement video, they showed us a clip of Executive Nappa being called to babysit Trunks, much to Vegeta's blood-curdling horror. And I am hyped. It's TFS's own version of the slice-of-life Dragon Ball filler episodes that people love so much.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 18th 2019 at 8:27:44 AM

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terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#35909: Sep 18th 2019 at 11:13:12 AM

https://twitter.com/KaiserNeko/status/1174213762037010432

Brief look at what would the Bojack script look like.

Edit:[nja]

Edited by terumokou on Sep 18th 2019 at 11:15:31 AM

Burning love!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35910: Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:39:41 AM

So in Ep 60 - Part 1:

  • 16 is on par with Cell
  • When Cell absorbs 17 he outmatches 16
  • Cell absorbs 18 and outmatches Trunks, Vegeta, and even Goku to a degree
  • It takes Goku, who is leagues above Vegeta who was leagues above 16 to put Cell through his paces

So how did 16 successfully restrain Cell long enough to threaten him with a nuclear bomb?

This happened once before with Raditz, but A) that was Raditz, B) Raditz had been hurt previously. Cell was more or less at full health.

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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#35911: Sep 23rd 2019 at 6:29:19 AM

Maybe it's just a matter of leverage?

Most of the fighters in Dragon Ball aren't grapplers, but grapples just about always seem to work.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#35912: Sep 23rd 2019 at 6:54:14 AM

I think 16 just caught Cell by surprise. Once it was revealed that 16 had his bomb removed (which actually set up Cell himself self-destructing, now that I think about it), Cell had no problems blowing 16 into pieces with just a basic ki blast.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35913: Sep 23rd 2019 at 7:06:52 AM

Yeah. We've seen weaker fighters hold down or hold back stronger fighters before. The ur-example is, as noted, Goku's full nelson on Raditz. Despite Gohan's attack, Raditz was still powerful enough to tear Goku and Piccolo to pieces simultaneously. If he wasn't, sacrificing Goku's life with the Makankosappo would have been entirely unnecessary. But Goku was able to hold Raditz for just long enough to Piccolo to fire due to his advantageous body position.

16 caught Cell by surprise and managed to gain a similarly advantageous body position, which bought him enough time to self-destruct. As noted above, however, Cell was eventually able to break free and had zero difficulty utterly obliterating 16 once he was free.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 23rd 2019 at 8:07:44 AM

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#35914: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:27:38 AM

Has the Android ability of "I have infinite energy which means I can never tire" ever come into any significant use? The most I can remember was that one time 17 bragged about it in his fight with Piccolo before Cell shows up.

Dragon Ball: Super do anything with that?

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 24th 2019 at 9:29:10 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35915: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:30:48 AM

That's the one main instance of its use. Piccolo, after merging with God, was about on-par with Android 17. Maybe a bit stronger. But 17's infinite stamina allowed him to outlast Piccolo.

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#35916: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:39:48 AM

[up]Right, that one.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35917: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:42:16 AM

Yeah. Since then, almost every fight has ended before the Androids could fully take advantage of it in one way or another.

Either the enemy was so powerful that they got beat down before the fight lasted long enough to wear said enemy down, or 17 and 18 totally eclipsed their opponents to the point where they never needed it.

I would like to see more fights where that particular aspect comes into play.

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#35918: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:43:20 AM

Dragon Ball: Super do anything with that?

Yeah it comes up a lot during 17 and 18's battles in the Tournament of Power.

Edited by Moth13 on Sep 24th 2019 at 12:43:26 PM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35919: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:43:51 AM

There's a subtle exemple in the TOP where in the last fight against Jiren 17 was the only one still capable of using Ki attacks.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35920: Sep 24th 2019 at 9:44:47 AM

In the anime at least. And only against maybe one opponent.

But yeah, I'd forgotten about that.

I suppose it technically comes up in Vegeta's fight with 18, but she was apparently just screwing around there as well.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#35921: Sep 24th 2019 at 10:12:19 AM

It's actually really emphasized with 17 and 18 in the TOP. Aside from 17 in the finale, there's also a robot enemy who can tank anything they throw at him, so they just shoot him with a barrage of ki blasts endlessly until his armor breaks. 17 fights Kakunsa, and they brag about how Kakunsa has incredible stamina, but then 17 reveals he has infinite stamina. Also, while other members of U7 need to take breaks to rest and recover, 17 and 18 are pretty much always fighting nonstop throughout the whole tournament.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:12:36 AM

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#35922: Sep 24th 2019 at 10:31:16 AM

Did Cell have unlimited stamina after absorbing 17 and 18? I don't recall him ever getting tired, so maybe.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35923: Sep 24th 2019 at 10:49:59 AM

That makes sense. Toriyama tends to introduce things, use them once, and then dump them on the curb and never talk about them again.

Toei, on the other hand, likes to milk every move, technique, and ability for all it's worth.

They have very different styles. And, since the Androids were the villains for the only arc they were relevant in, Toei's never really gotten to play around with their infinite energy generators. Android 17 f*cked off the face of the universe after Cell, while 18 succumbed to Stay in the Kitchen Syndrome.

So it's nice to hear that Toei's using the Tournament of Power to finally showcase it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 24th 2019 at 11:51:53 AM

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35924: Sep 24th 2019 at 10:57:51 AM

[up][up]Villains never get tired in this series unless they're losing.

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Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#35925: Sep 24th 2019 at 11:48:07 AM

@Pushover Media Critic Bojack does have that unique problem with the villains being even more cardboard cutouts than usual. They barely interact with each other or anyone else and without that, TFS is robbed of their power.

As far as being burned out on doing Abridged, I'm happy for them. I've been watching this crap since the beginning and I always wondered how long they could keep it up. If they can move on and create some original I Ps or something then more power to them.

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