<.< I like what they've done with Frieza too.
I've always felt that killing Frieza off was missing a golden opportunity for a recurring villainous threat we can be safely assured will never be redeemed. I like the idea of this bad guy that's just out there somewhere, showing up to pull shit and occasionally be the Token Evil Teammate.
Like a little ball of chaos showing up to cause shit to happen.
Piccolo filled that slot in the Saiyan arc, but then he decided he wanted to be a Good Guy for realsies.
Vegeta filled that slot in the Namek and Android arcs plus , but then he also decided he wanted to be a Good Guy for realsies - save for a brief relapse in the Buu arc.
I feel relatively confident that Frieza won't ever decide he wants to be a Good Guy for realsies. Resurrection of F was stupid, but Frieza's roles in the Tournament of Power and then in the Broly film are everything I ever wanted out of him.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 12:35:44 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.No, if Freeza and Goku fight there's a pretty reasonable chance of Freeza winning.
For three reasons: a) the power gab between them seems even smaller than back in Namek (disregarding Ultra Instinct), b) Freeza finally learned to apply stamina training in his workout routine, and c) he can just take punishment like no one else.
Seriously, the Freaky Alien Genotype spent an entire hour fooling around with Broly and still seemed to be in better condition than either Vegeta or Goku.
Edited by HailMuffins on Aug 16th 2019 at 3:36:29 PM
Pretty much everyone agrees Resurrection F was a bad idea, barring that it established why Frieza was an asset to the team (his increase in power). But it is hard to deny that his current place in the franchise is a good one for him.
Honestly, I do wish Toriyama had considered this with some other villains. It seems Frieza was the only one where he felt he made a mistake getting rid of him (or liked him enough to bring him back).
His tendency to go one and done with each Arc Villain is a big part of how he's gotta jump through a lot of hoops to find a new bad guy every time.
One Strip! One Strip!I do think Cell in particular was another missed opportunity for a recurring threat.
When Goku let Vegeta live, his rationale was that he hoped Vegeta would come back and threaten the Earth some day so that they could fight again. Cell's final ultimate sinister plan was that he wanted to butt heads with the universe's strongest fighters and prove his mettle. It would have been so easy to write him into the exact scenario Goku wanted for Vegeta.
Cell is defeated, flies off into space to go get stronger and come back for another go.
Ooo, he could even hook up with Frieza and have the Bash Brothers dynamic people love from the anime's filler episodes in Hell.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 12:58:06 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I do like that Frieza's kinda gone through a small character arc of his own, going from "brute force is the only tool you need. I'm the strongest after all." to "Okay, there's people actually stronger than me, so I should fight smarter, not just harder".
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Cell, were he around today, I think would be primed for Character Development in any number of ways. He'd basically be in the same position Vegeta was in during the Android arc.
Okay, bad guy. You're a sadistic and malevolent asshole. You don't give a single solitary shit about other people. BUT. The one main thing that drove you, that one thing you wanted more than anything, that thing that pushed you to act? You got that. That's done. It's over.
Everything you ever wanted, you have it. Frieza is dead and out of your life forever You've achieved your Perfect Form.
So what happens next? This is literally all that mattered to you, so who are you now? What do you even do with your life?
It'd be really neat to see Cell become, like, Frieza's Goku. Constantly pushing himself to his limits to try and keep up with the increasingly powerful Saiyans on the other side of the line.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 1:09:25 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.T'is a shame Toriyama disliked drawing Cell so much. I don't know if that carries over to other artists, but I get the feeling as long as he's not interested in coming back to Cell, it's not gonna be a thing.
Because the scenario Tobias came up with is something I like the sound of.
One Strip! One Strip!The leopard spots going away wouldn't hurt his design; really!
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Fighter Z Cell being the prime shade thrower, Jerk with a Heart of Jerk, is awesome. For all intents and purposes he is evil Goku, who wants to fight for the sake of it. With a marinade of Freeza and Vegeta arrogance, true.
That's not the norm and now it's disgusting...
Should've went with the redesign...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.The original DBZ did not really need to make Frieza or Cell recurring threats.
It’s not an American superhero comic, it’s more of a straighter serial. Villain headlines a story arc, they get their shine in the spotlight, then they die.
Especially since said spotlight lasts for literal years in real life.
Edited by slimcoder on Aug 16th 2019 at 2:04:45 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."It’s not an American superhero comic, it’s more of a straighter serial. Villain headlines a story arc, they get their shine in the spotlight, then they die.
Especially since said spotlight lasts for literal years in real life.
That's not really accurate.
Tenshinhan, Piccolo (twice, even!), Vegeta, and Majin Buu were all the main villains of their arcs who were then invited to stick around and be part of the cast forever once they were defeated. Frieza and Cell are kind of outliers for dying and then staying dead, and Frieza's perma-death has since been revoked so he can join the other villains.
It's really just Cell getting f*cked now.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 3:11:29 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Well, Cell came about due to a lot of not quite Executive Meddling didn't he?
I mean, the person who had issues with him wasn't Toriyama's editor, but Toriyama did seem to value his opinion enough to constantly change the direction of the story, and Cell was one of the results of that.
Maybe he equates him with how much the saga is all over the place, and that contributes to his dislike.
Or maybe he really just doesn't want to draw him or see him anymore.
I mean, he's not even drawing the manga anymore, and he's still finding ways to write out Saiyan tails, even though I'd say there's still a lot to explore on that front.
One Strip! One Strip!

I actually like that Jiren was defeated without Goku becoming the stronkest. Took a team effort to force him off because nobody could actually beat him.
It follows through on the trend established by Beerus, whose film unprecedentedly ended without Goku defeating him and becoming the stronkest. The post-revival Dragon Ball stuff seems to be following a theme where maybe Goku doesn't need to surpass every obstacle and that maybe it's okay for him to merely be phenomenally insanely stronk and not the absolute unparalleled stronkest.
Like. I actually expect we'll never see Goku surpass Whis. I am 100% certain there will never be a point where Goku can beat up Zen'o. I wouldn't be surprised if Jiren never shows up again and their relationships just concludes with Jiren being a wall Goku never overcame.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 16th 2019 at 12:30:11 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.