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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#35451: Aug 8th 2019 at 11:24:38 AM

Well, not using Super Saiyan 3 until the very end (and not finishing Buu off then and there), enthrusting Goten and Trunks, destroying the Potara, saving Satan rather than Gohan and company...

Yeah, from the top of my head...

terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#35452: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:07:36 PM

Oh man, Abridged Geets is about to give one hell of an earful to Abridged Goku that even he can't passively shrug off.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35453: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:18:51 PM

saving Satan rather than Gohan and company

...

I wonder if Abridged Goku will make this call 'cause he legit thinks Satan has a better chance at helping out against Buu than Gohan?

He did defeat Cell, after all.

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DS9guy Since: Jan, 2001
#35454: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:49:37 PM

OK. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I mean the scenes before Broly went Legendary. The mind control devise, Broly attacking Goku at night, the fact that the gang have dinner with Paragus after they find out the slaves building the city, which he clearly knows about, but don’t confront him about it until much later. Also, I think Master Roshi pack some alcohol with him on the trip because he is still drunk after a few days in the original.

It seems TFS did a lot of streamlining (including how much time had passed), even if it resulted in Parugus’ name not being uttered in their version of the confrontation scene.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#35455: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:00:35 PM

I swear if Chris Sabat makes a cameo in the movie version of the Cell games...

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35456: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:22:05 PM

[up]x3 I feel that's very unfair: Satan was a Innocent Bystander in danger, what was he supposed to do, ignore him?

Not having time to save Gohan was just unfortunate luck.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#35457: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:37:37 PM

Saving Satan was a side effect of saving Dende, and therefore, the Dragonballs.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35458: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:54:39 PM

Veggie didn't grab anyone, he has a "reason"...but not one to justify yelling at Kakarrot.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35459: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:09:04 PM

Saving Satan was a side effect of saving Dende, and therefore, the Dragonballs.

The planet was exploding. Earth's Dragon Balls were about to become violently irrelevant with or without Dende.

And Dende's survival has no bearing on the Namekian Dragon Balls that they wind up using to defeat Majin Buu. Especially when he and Mr. Satan would be brought back no worse for wear with the "Resurrect Planet Earth" wish that Porunga grants.

Prioritizing Dende and Mr. Satan over Gohan, Goten, and Trunks was just plain a bad judgment call. Gohan could have wrecked Pure Buu's shit in seconds and circumvented the whole Dragon Ball gambit in the first place; he was more powerful than Goku's Super Saiyan 3 and more powerful than Super Buu - himself, a level above Pure Buu.

The needs of the plot required Gohan to be left to die, but the fact that Gohan even had such a Story-Breaker Power is a glaring condemnation of Goku's decision-making.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 8th 2019 at 3:13:23 AM

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terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#35460: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:25:33 PM

Looking forward to that second speech from Vegeta when TFS gets to it too.

Buu Arc is prime material for calling out on Goku's shit.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35461: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:30:07 PM

It's totally his fault...

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35463: Aug 8th 2019 at 3:07:26 PM

Goku saving Satan was definitely not a pragmatic move, but he felt bad about ignoring an innocent person who was going to die right in front of him. But more importantly, they were closer and Goku didn't even have time to teleport himself out, it was that tight. There's no guarantee they still would have made it if he went for Gohan and co.

I'm surprised Goku gets so much flack for that.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35464: Aug 8th 2019 at 3:09:46 PM

[up]Thank you, I was failling to put that into words.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35465: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:19:14 PM

[up][up]Same here. I've never understood that complaint. Especially since, again, Vegeta didn't even try to get anyone.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 8th 2019 at 6:20:16 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35466: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:32:41 PM

Timing.

I think it'd be a problem for him too.

Especially without the anime padding.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35467: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:35:43 PM

Who would Vegeta grab? He can't teleport. All he could do was stick close to Goku to avoid being left behind.

So when Goku diverted course to get Mr. Satan and Dende instead of Gohan, Piccolo, and the kids, Vegeta had to divert course with him.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35468: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:58:36 PM

He can try and get someone, then go back to Goku's side. Vegeta's inability to teleport is irrelevant for that.

This honestly seems like one of those moments that people criticize Goku for because they're just invested in criticizing Goku.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 8th 2019 at 6:59:45 AM

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#35469: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:10:56 PM

A lot of people probably saw the animated version. I don't know if that makes a difference in how the scene is illustrated, but...

  • Most people forced to make a fatal decision between saving "two people you kind of know" and "immediate family" would likely choose the latter. So it makes Goku's decision seem odd to most. Even Vegeta, prince of all assholes, chews him out about it.
    • Not that he's without fault - he and Goku were like a split-second apart when they took off, and apparently Goku was supposed to grab all four of those people by himself. He probably could, but still.
  • We make snap judgments of people in perilous situations all the time, so that's where the complaint you hear likely comes from. Few are going to look at that clip and say "Goku did the best he could."
  • The manga could've been different since you're looking at it panel-to-panel. Maybe there was a clearer image of Goku and Vegeta's beeline to safety. Maybe it did a better job indicating that there really wasn't time to grab anyone. But if you watched the anime we only get a brief look at Goku diving down and suddenly Dende and Hercule are in his grasp, and this motion happens in seconds making it easy to disregard or confuse how much time actually passed.

Edited by Soble on Aug 8th 2019 at 5:51:11 AM

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Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#35470: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:18:41 PM

I feel in this particular situation at least (I don't know the specific framing or context, mind), I don't think it's entirely fair to blame Goku, since the situation was pretty tight and he made his choice based on who was in front of him. Like, call him out on the Gohan thing because even if he knew he had to send Gohan in there had to be a better way of doing it than throwing the kid to the wolves, and he had plenty of time to plan things out. This is a much more tight situation comparatively so I think him doing something inoptimal is not some major failure of his as a person.

EDIT: Well looking at the scene in question, it honestly seems like he saw more people on the way and tried to get them at the same time since they were on the way, while the others weren't close enough either way.

Edited by Alfric on Aug 8th 2019 at 5:24:19 AM

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#35471: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:23:29 PM

I don't think anyone is actually saying it's some major failure of him as a person. It's just fun to rib on Goku for doing the inoptimal thing.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35472: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:26:53 PM

Oh right, he wasn't even able to do IT anyway...

But...hold on...looks up original scene.

The scene is the same in both versions and Veggie appears to not move to save anyone...so was he expecting Kakarrot to carry everyone?

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Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#35473: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:27:55 PM

[up][up]It kinda comes across that way in some of these situations, although in general you're right. It's kinda why the whole "Goku is a bad dad" thing gets so heated, since some consider that to be the truth while others disagree. I can't speak for most people since I'm pretty whatever on it, but from the conversations I've seen it seems like it matters a lot to people whether or not Goku is a good person.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35474: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:34:23 PM

It doesn't matter if he's a good or bad person.

It matters that jokes don't end up becoming misconceptions.

It's dumb.

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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#35475: Aug 8th 2019 at 5:42:23 PM

It's not like the actual show does Goku any favors in proving that misconception wrong.

Edited by Darthwyn on Aug 8th 2019 at 8:43:04 AM

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